Chris Webber to Announce Retirement Wednesday
(Photo:Rocky Widner/NBAE via Getty Images)
One of just six players (Bird, Wilt, Billy Cunningham, KG and Elgin Baylor) in the history of the NBA to average 20, 9 and 4. All but he and Garnett are in the Hall of Fame.
One of the most talented power forwards of all time has decided to hang up his kicks. I just got word from my peoples on this so, I’ll have more later. I think it was apropos his career came full circle and he’s going out as a Warrior. Although I’ve interviewed him personally in the past, my only regret is I didn’t get to interview him in a locker room setting. Yeah it’s selfish, but so what. Appreciate what he has given the game over the course of his career instead of what the media tells you. Even though it was a huge moment in sports history, one must not judge the timeout as the defining moment of his very stellar and IMO Hall of Fame career. Chris Webber is a winner–period. He will be referenced long after all of us are gone because of the Fab Five…for they changed the game.
Much love Chris. Thanks for the memories dawg. See you in July.
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March 26th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Not to be a debbie downer here, but my lasting memory of Webber will be of him in a Bullets/Wizards uniform. He fell in love with his jumper, DC women, and the sticky icky. He and Juwan treated the DC fans like a great stripper. Show me all your goodies, shake it around, then disappear of the stage, leaving the audience wondering what the hell just happened, and would it happen again. He and Derrick Coleman are on the Mt Rushmore of wasted talent.
March 26th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
All I can say is that Michelle is gonna get you!!!
I think he found himself in Sacramento as a ballplayer and a person, DC just wasn’t a good fit for him and I’m sure he got caught up in some things that he wasn’t too proud of, but that happens when you’re young. You live and learn.
I wouldn’t put him and Derrick Coleman in the same category when it comes to disappointments, I can think of many more players before I even consider C-Webb. They were both great talents but from my observations I believe Webber cared alot more about winning than Coleman did
March 26th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Imagine being basically movie stars at 18. Regardless of what many illogically assume to be college failures not winning championships at Michigan, they were in a world of their own. All these cats coming into the league now? Lebron included had nothing on the spotlight the Fab Five had shining on them almost to this day. I don’t apologize for anyone, but if my sons ended up with career like Webber, I’d be proud.
March 26th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
rashad…….. hilarious, tho i agree with thebrotherreport that he’s not quite in that coleman category. as mizzo said, he still averaged 20 pts, 9.8 boards and 4 assists in his career (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/webbech01.html).
i think DC folks remember him as the one they WISH would’ve stayed when it came time that he or juwan had to go. i think i speak for EVERY area resident when i say we’d like a do-over.
March 26th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I wonder if C-Web could become a coach with that lingering “time-out” incident in his past? Heated games would come down to him popping some knucklehead in the face when the said, “sure, i f*&ked up, but at least i know how many time-outs we have left!”
Not sure what the political equivalent would be. Any suggestions?
March 26th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Rashad,
Get that dumb ass bs out of here. C-Webb is one of the nicest athletes around. His dedication to the disadvantaged youth in this country is unlike anything I’ve seen from an athlete. To reach their minds with reading programs and educating them about the horrors of slavery while letting them know they are beautiful and can do anything they put their minds to. You are uniformed and need to take that crap to a msm website. C-Webb will not be disrespected here. He had a great career but unfortunately had many game altering injuries (ankles, shoulder, knees,back). He is a HOF period! More of the same crabs in the basket BS. When will we learn?
March 26th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Told you she was gonna get you!!!
March 26th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Tim,
Grow up!!!!!! Not many college players can say they had the tournament success C-Webb did. If he stayed another year like many of the Duke players MI would have won. Every game in the tournament is win or go home so I guess you would rather have someone like JJ. R. coaching, a guy who in the regular season set scoring records but disappeared in the tournament? Those of you narrow minded people want to judge a person by 30 seconds of his life because the media has played that over and over, LET ME EDUCATE YOU BECAUSE YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T EVEN SEE THE DAMN GAME. THERE WAS ABOUT 30 seconds left in the game when the TO was called C-WEBB scored the basket before that for MI and NC was winning the game at the time. MI was NOT! C-WEBB had stats as a rookie that no one has. If you don’t know look it up. Sac was terrible until his arrival when he left they were terrible again. He took the Bullets to the playoffs only losing to Jordan in 3 hard fought games. As a rookie GS made the playoffs. So you haters shut hell up. A brother as positive as he is about his people will never get the Bs from me I’ll save that for someone lame like Tiger I hate my blackness Woods!
March 26th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
TBR,
Right! If you don’t know now you know r.
March 26th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
LMAO!
March 26th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
C-Webb was 20, 10 and close to 5 assist in his prime. He made his teammates better. The last 3 years post knee surgery his numbers came way down in FG%, PTS, BOARDS AND ASSIST. All of you ,Tim and Rashad who think you know something about basketball should know that not many players in history have done that. As for winning a title, well that’s all about the team, health, coach, luck and timing. Oh and REFS TOO! Just ask Dirk about that.
March 26th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Rashad,
Derrick Coleman? Boy you ought to be slapped for comparing him to C-Webb. No offense DC but what an insult.
March 26th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
I will say that the one thing DC and C-Webb have in common is that they both have high basketball IQs. Either one of these dudes would be an excellent coach. They’re like coaches on the floor, If I could have one dude on that 2001 76ers team against the Lakers it would’ve been DC - but they let him go the year before.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Rashad you must be smoking DC crack. This dude at one time was considered the best PF in the game the best. And also considered the best passing big man in the game at one time.
Only injury stopped him from being considered a top 7 PF of all time.
In washington he played SF and Juwan played PF. Thats one reason he didn’t shine like he was suppose to. But he still avg. over 20 pts a night in washington. The problem in washington was that they had no outside shooting and too many PFs and no wing players.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Naw michelle not even the refs could save sorry @ss dirk.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Dirk had it coming after what he did to my man AK-47 He should’ve been ejected for that foul.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Origin,
Thanks for backing me up on this one. Rashad must be on something but like I said crabs in the basket. He’s just a hater. If you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
If you guys remember Ben and Rasheed Wallace were also on that Bullets team.
March 26th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I gotta throw this out there O. What about Tracey Murray, Tim Legler, Calbert Chaney and Strick?
March 26th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
I know sister thats why I said they were loading at PF. But they had no wing players. Thats why Webber was traded for Mitch Richmond. Ain’t no thing though webber always been a class act same with you. I got yalls back all day:)
Yeah brother report how dirk slam AK-47 like that and not get thrown out was a joke. Have you seen Dirk the last 3 games. LA, Boston and SA. That dude was allowed to hack every freaking play and no fouls called on him. He is the most protected player in the NBA that is over 6′-10″. Its no reason he shouldn’t be on the all defensive team every year. If you are allowed to hack and not get fouls called on you.
Big old tough Dirk gonna slam AK-47 soft @ss. But when shaq threw that elbow into his chin in the finals that coward folded like a deck of cards.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
LOL! I forgot about the Shaq elbow. Dirk’s got game but I’ll always see him as soft. Think he woulda tried to slam ‘Sheed or Amare like that…I think not.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
Yeah Mizzo I forgot about Tim legler I remember Tracy Murray.
I remember calbert Chenney. But remember he wasn’t that good of a 3 point shooter to spread the floor. But they really didn’t have any consistant 2 guards or small forwards. Also strickland wasn’t that good of a outside shooter.
Murray and legler were their best shooters. But they weren’t getting consistant shoot from teh outside with their line up.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
I just had to throw that out there for the haters. I totally agree.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
I like Dirk but I have to say if that were C-Webbs Kings last year with the best record in the league and they got knocked out of the playoffs in the first round and Chris played as bad as Dirk did the media would still be slamming him.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
So long C-Webb I will miss him most of all. He’s the reason I’m a basketball fan. Thanks for all the memories. When he had his legs boy he was dangerous. He is the best passing big man of all time.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
I remember I watched Tim Legler score 73 points in a Summer League (Baker League) game in Philly. Played 3 years with L-Train at LaSalle
March 26th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Michelle your love for C-Webb is startingfive legend. I feel a similar way about Kevin Garnett in that he’s the singular athlete I absolutely adore. That being said I acknowledge some of his small flaws. Nobody is trying to discredit his work in the community or his humanitarian efforts. Keeping it strictly basketball Webb fell in love with the jumpshot. Charles Barkley once said that he actually feared a young Chris Webber.(does anyone else remember the behind the back, dunk over barkley? just filthy) The aggressiveness, the natural skills, the athleticism were an extremely rare combination and I’m not so sure he maximized them. Some guys have the tools and don’t use them, (tim thomas comes to mind) other guys are limited and make up for it with desire and hustle (think boozer or david west) and then there are the guys that give us a view of real greatness. At his best Webber was a throwback to the rebounding, scoring, defending power forwards of the 70’s and 80’s. I have to think that a combination of injuries and a lack of desire to be that type of player reduced him to the face up point forward he retired as. Chris Webber put up HOF numbers and would have played on the greatest of stages if not for Jordan and then Shaq/Kobe. He’s one of the greats but I just think he left a few what ifs
March 26th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Jerod Wells JR,
That was fair and showed no disrespect or immaturity like the comments of the clowns above.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Even though I don’t agree. We sometimes expect a athlete to play a certain way. We also don’t know how the pain of injuries causes players to reinvent themselves. Webb torn up his shoulder diving on the floor for a rebound his second yaer in the league. All his dunks were fun to look at but I’ m sure that damaged his knees and ankles. He was very aggressive pre injuries. I’m sure he had all the desire in the world.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
I wouldn’t say that Webber lacked the desire to be that type of player. Injuries took away the power in his game. At UM and his early years in the League he had the nastiest drop step in the game, but over time his knees just wore down. Ultimately, he had to become effective with what he had. He could’ve packed it in when he was no longer the explosive player he was, he chose to add wrinkles to his game.
The time invested in that alone takes desire.
March 26th, 2008 at 6:53 pm
TBR,
That’s what I was trying to say. You writers ar good at making points. I some how end up sounding like a dork. LOL!
March 26th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Nah, you were on point with it. MJ did the same thing when he came back the first time - he wasn’t the slasher we had seen prior to his first retirement. When he came back he relied a little more on his perimeter game. Why? Tendonitis in his knees was becoming an issue. It happens to every player, it depends what part of your game it effects and what are you willing to add to your game to still be effective.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
ok… I have one question. And I know Michelle is gonna kill me for this but I find myself, at least slightly, agreeing with Billy Packer. I always thought they were tremendous teams Juwan, Chris Webber, and Jalen had. But the Fab Five moniker bothered me.
Big Ten Conference Championships for Michigan during the Fab Five years:0
Big Ten Tournament Titles for Michigan during the same period: 0
NCAA Titles for Michigan during that period: 0 (and one almost happened with Webber in ‘93 but UNC stopped it)
I’m not trying to assassinate Chris here. But i think it is fair to ask if those teams underacheived just a little bit.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
And you consider yourself a Michigan fan? Do you remember the Big Ten back then. Michael Finley led Wisconsin. Glen Robinson led Purdue. Shawn Respert at MSU. Alan Henderson and Calbert Chaney at Indiana. Chris Jent, Jamaal Brown and Jimmy Jackson at Ohio State.
Eff Billy Packer. All he did was hate and would scream technical if one of them hung on the rim.
This was a different time Okori. There were no cats defecting like now. Most squads were led by some serious senior talent. Age and discipline did in the Fab Five–and the refs–but it was never about underachieving.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
The Fab Five collectively lost to Bobby Knight four times by one point each game.
They defeated every team that beat them except for Duke in those two years. When they beat Ohio State in the elite eight, OSU was ranked number one in the country (freshman year). OSU smashed Michigan during the season. There’s no way a team out of high school should have been able to keep up with teams that had been together for years.
That team overachieved.
Okori that you even referenced Billy Packer is really disappointing. Like Jalen famously stated during the Duke/Michigan Final, check the replay.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
Lord Okori are you smoking stuff. That wasn’t the College Basketball of today when super teams don’t stay together or guys come to the college for a year. College basketball was loaded then. He11 shaq couldn’t even get out what mizzo the second round?
And he had Stanley Roberts and Chris Jackson.
Yeah and what Mizzo said the big ten was loaded.
If anything the Fab five overachieved. If you look at it they were young dudes going against many teams that had seniors leading them.
Packer and the rest of the good ole boy ilk were just pissed that these brothers brought baggy pants hightop fades and black socks to college.
The nerve a team full of inner city black freshman have the nerve to lead their team to the final 4 and also set fashion trends. Lord have Mercy hide the women and children.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I don’t put much stock into the conference tourneys because the teams that play the hardest are the ones fighting to get in the Dance.
Their freshman year, I’ll give the Fabs a pass - we didn’t expect that from them, against Carolina they were there til the end - that Carolina team they lost to was no pushover
March 26th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
That 1990 LSU team was one of the great disappointments.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
What fashion trends?
March 26th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I know thebrother report they really didn’t set a fashion trend but folks in the media swear they created the baggy shorts, hightop fades and black socks.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
Also it should be noted that the Big Ten didn’t have a post season tournament. To win on the road you had to be perfect. Could you imagine playing Michael Finley, Big Dog, Shawn Respert, Vashon Leonard, Jimmy Jackson, Alan Henderson and Calbert Chaney (the golden boy) in succession?
They won against these All Americans–they all were All Americans–more than they lost.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
True Mizzo very true.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
They were the first team I saw wear black socks, UNLV was the first team I saw go with the baggy shorts, and black sneakers, I was just wanted to see what your answer was. But on your point the media prayed that those guys wouldn’t win it.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Dag, I thought I was the only one that felt that way about Chaney, the blew him up so bad til it was sickening. And that fact that he played for B. Knight put me over the top.
March 26th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Yeah I know. The media was on some B.S. I never went along with that. Yeah UNLV were the first I saw where baggy jeans. And as far as I know Fab Five were the first to wear black socks. But you know the media added their own twist by added about their high top fades and every thing else.
If you ask them the Fab Five and AI ruined basketball.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
ESPN just had a poll. 70% say Chris Webber is not a Hall of Famer.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Sir the only reason I referenced Packer is because he was the only one who brought up the point. Not that I agree with Packer at all, because on 99.6 percent of his stuff, I don’t. I didn’t even say that the Fab Five did underachieve. I merely asked if it was fair to ask if they did.
Here, as a matter of fact, is the exact quote (Credit to Neil Best’s Watchdog column for it) “Packer on 1992 being a transition point in basketball’s evolution:
“You had the Dream Team, players who developed their game, went to college, played the college game, developed their game there, had instinctive competitive instincts. At the same time you had the college game in 1992, where Duke repeats as the national champion and it’s a senior-oriented team. You have the Christian Laettners, you have the Bobby Hurleys, you have the Grant Hills, all guys who played four years of college. They understood this is a team game and a team competition.
“And who did they play? Michigan, the Fab Five. The Fab Five in effect represented the future direction of the game, the fashion, it’s about me, it’s about taking money under the table with no regard to the rules and regulations. It was about exhibitionism. It was about promotion before production.
“A guy called me from Michigan a couple of weeks ago wanting to do an article on the Fab Five. I said, ‘How can you be a Fab Five when you never won a conference championship?’ The Fab Five is the University of Kentucky that won two straight national championships and an Olympic gold medal. It’s not a Fab Five because you make it one.”
It’s an interesting point, albeit one I do not agree with.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
No it’s not an interesting point, it sucks with old school black versus white traditionalism.
Why do you think CBS has Packer and Nance do big games instead of Gus Johnson and Clark Kellogg? It’s not because of talent I assure you.
It’s always about race. They don’t want middle America alienated.
Watch both National Finals on tape and you will see so many crazy calls against Michigan it will make you sick.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
I hear you Okori it may be an intesting point but it reeks of BS and good ole boyism. Nothing more nothing less. Nothing but the typical code words. Same code words used when QBs like Mcnabb and Vince play. Same code words used when comparing Kobes game to Nash’s
Same code words used when good ole boys describe the NBA. Same code words used when folks agree that the NFL needs to have players cut their hair. Same code words used when folks cheered for the oposing team when Team USA is playing in teh olympics. Same crap when Mayo’s game is compared to Love’s and before that Shaq’s to Laettner’s game.
Doesn’t take too much digging to see what those code words mean.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:13 pm
I don’t doubt that’s right. And it’s Nantz, not Nance.
And I actually don’t like the way Gus calls a game. Give me like Mike Tirico over him all the time.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
but let’s be clear… that UK team he talked about? Sheesh. 2 Straight national titles, and just for fun, an Olympic Medal? Wow. That would be really impressive if it didn’t come in an era where the NCAA was ssegregated.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Whatever on Nantz…he still sucks. I hate the way he says Billy. Dude you are not on the links, this is basketball. The game has moved away from the mainstream and should be judged accordingly. And regarding Gus, Tirico sucks as well. He is all about pandering to the masses and that is no way to be. Either be objective and reference ALL the facts or shut the hell up.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
umm….. you ok dude? Like seriously…. I’ve been on this board for a while and I’ve never seen you like this.
Well it’s a simple question: What do you want Tirico to do exactly as a play-by-play man? His main job is to call the action of the game, unless we’re talking about his radio show.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Exactly Okori thats why I said code word when he brought that UK team up. I new that was just icing on the cake.
That god@mn texas western team messed everything up for UK. With their show boating playing like the harlem globetrotters.
With their me first attitude and fancy dribbling.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I think that UK team might be prime example No. 1 of the team i’d like to see in the modern era, just to see if their achievements were a byproduct of segregation or if they weren’t. And before anyone says that they’re positive they were: Fallacy of the pre-determined outcome.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:42 pm
That’s the problem with these wonderful sites with great, in-depth discussion (another reason why so many of us love TSF!) — the convo goes on even while we’re away! Good stuff.
Michelle –
Thanks for karate chopping what i said, so lets get back to some clarity…
I am not a member of the “soundbite” decision-makers of america club. I did pose the CWebb coaching question with those fools in mind, however, after constantly following this recent string of events political theater and finding out that there are plenty of the types out there. Obama receives much too much flak for the soundclips created by folks he calls his “folks”. There are people out there who’d judge both Obama and CWeb by the 1 decision of their lives — hence, my wondering aloud if “the timeout incident” would be something knucklehead kids he’d coach would bring up… and get busted upside the head for. (Short answer: yes. Aren’t they wrong for it? Heck. Yes.) I’ve read quite a few glowing pieces about CWeb (quite a bit from mizzo’s work, actually) being a great person in the community, and an all-in-all great person, and agree (as much as one from my outsider’s perpective can). Sounds like he’d be a great coach. He’d just have a few kids to punch out!
Even during his “get high” days in DC, CWeb still smiled, signed autographs and did all the other good stuff for the community. I respect the socially conscious athlete and hold him in high regard for being one.
And when I pointed out C-Web’s stats, that was to point out that his career dominated Coleman, and he wasn’t “quite” (an obvious understatement) in the “wasted talent” category, as had been mentioned by rashad.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Okori do not dismiss the concerns of others as a means to validate your own.
Tirico cosigns on the meanderings of whoever he’s partnered with. That’s foul. Be your own man. Dude lives in Ann Arbor but shits on the Fab Five every chance he gets…or anything else considered Black for that matter and it’s utterly disgusting. He has a responsibility to remain objective. That’s it. Anything else is out of line.
Understand something about me right now…I have a sense of urgency that is like no other. I will no long pull punches or mince words for the present. Trust me, I see it every day covering games for the NBA. I’m tired of the pack.
March 26th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
I’m headed to cover the game tonight. Be Peace my people. Keep it flowing…
March 26th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Someone send me the TSF archive link on the Tiger Woods incident — tim@mindritesports.com. I know all about it, but missed the TSF discussion (i’ll head over to TSF writer DWil’s site to check there in a sec, too) and don’t want people to have to repeat their old arguments too much… with that said….
michelle — It’s foul to start name-calling with Tiger because he didn’t feel as if he should make a bigger deal out of something you might have. doesn’t mean he “hates his blackness”
perfect example: “republicans wear sneakers too”
*someone send me another link or michelle shoot me an email to discuss the tiger woods topic elsewhere, not here on the cweb spot*
March 26th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Tim you mean this? Hit me up Tim. You have my number rignt?
March 26th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
Good man, I’ll get at you in a bit.
March 26th, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Tim,
It is fair to call out Tiger. Whenever someone made a negative comment about his race. He had nothing to say yet he felt the need to bash Michael Vick for his problems. I was done with his caubalnaisan or whatever he is ass after that. Fuck the ESPN poll I didn’t vote. Most people don’t know the facts so they base their small minded opinions on what ESPN tells them. I have followed C-Webbs career from day 1 so I know all the facts. Bottom line if their is anyone ibn the HOF with stats less then his, then he should be there. Guess what there are.
Tim,
My bad!
Okori,
My boy a couple of things. The Fab Five were over achievers not the other way around. Mizzo made the argument for that. As far as taking money or getting gifts goes. That shit was common. White boys were left alone. C-Webb was a case of the govenrments dirty tricks we got this touble making nigger now. That’s all C-Webb is a brother with a library card and many good ole boys don’t like that. He’s handsome, he cares about were he came from and hasn’t forgotten that and he speaks out against racism. That’s why he has a big ole bullseye on his back. Mike Tirico is a puppet asshole. When the media likes someone they get a pass, when they don’t you are under an unfair microscope. How often do we see C.L. making that game winning shot against Kentucky? Too damn much. Ok, how often do you hear the sports media talk about what a joke C.L. was in the nba and that he left in shame because he kept failing drug test? Ah, never! The media is fucked up and people are uninformed. Like 1 and 5 people polled think Obama is a muslim. I don’t care about the ESPN poll about Webb. In closing there has never been an all freshman team other than the Fab Five to make it to the championship game and there never will be. People of color need their own sports and news network so that our people are covered fairly. The wa A. I was done by the media in philly was terrible yet Brett Myers beats his wife up in public they cover it for a minute and then he’s forgiven. WTF?
March 26th, 2008 at 11:10 pm
In case you guys don’t know what a brother with a library card is that means he’s intelligent. But I’m sure you guys all know that. LOL!
March 26th, 2008 at 11:13 pm
I feel old now…..I was in tears that night watching the Fab Five be denied over one little slip-up. There was a den full of folks in Tallahassee, FL who felt CWebb’s pain that night…now he’s retiring from the NBA…..time stops for no one.
March 26th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Tim,
Also many people in their early 20’s were getting high, drunk and doing even harder drugs. So that means nothing to me. He was doing what most people his age were doing at a party.I don’t live in a glass house so I don’t throw stones. If I did it I’m not going to slam someone else for doing it. I doesn’t matter if you attend Duke or are someone poor in the ghetto people in the 20’s have puffed on a joint.
March 26th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Miranda,
You have a heart!
March 26th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Fab Five beating Kentucky in the tournament. That was a great game and C-Webb was all over the place. His stats were crazy sick in that game. Also the UCLA game were they came back from I think 16 or 19 down after halftime. Jimmy King made the game winner. That’s classic stuff and I will not let it be forgotten. I’m sure the clowns that voted in that poll on ESPN can’t tell you jack shit about Chris the teams he was on or his impact.
March 26th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Just one more thing Sir Charles thinks C-Webb should be in the HOF so do I trust the opinion of him, some dork sport writers who bring their bias, or idiot so called fans of the game. AHH ,I think I will take the opinion of a guy who is in the HOF and plays the same position as the person in question.
March 26th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
*raises his hand* I wasn’t saying that it was a negative thing Mike. But the sudden switch threw me.
Michelle….. By the way there won’t be another all-freshman team like that because no more than 1 freshman of the quality needed to make a National Title contender would very much likely not go to the same school.
March 27th, 2008 at 12:29 am
Okori, that’s what makes the Fab Five so special. The fact they came together, threw ego and individual glory out the window was so so special and people like you and Billy Packer will hate on C-Webb about what didn’t happen, calling them cheaters and the like, which is unfair. Damn shame Chris didn’t get the love outside of Detroit, he really deserved it
March 27th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Vito do not EVER compare me to Billy Packer. I never, for one second, called C-Webb a cheater. I don’t think he did cheat at all. I firmly believe athletes in collegiate sports should be paid.
But if I happen to think that C-Webb was just a rung below immortal, a place where 90% of basketball players would kill to be, does that make me an Uncle Tom? A Sellout? A disgrace to my race? Bottom line…. C-Webb was always this-close to being a champion. And for whatever reason he never got to the Chip in the pro’s. If I think that the Fab Five Michigan teams don’t compare favorably to the UCLA teams of the 70’s, the UNC teams of the ’80’s, the Arizona teams of the 1990’s or even the Florida teams of ‘06 and ‘07, am I a traitor to where I got my education?
But I guess, to be a member in good standing here, I have to think Chris Webber is a better power forward than Kevin McHale or Tim Duncan.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:00 am
Oh really Okori……………..didn’t Conley follow Oden to OU????
So it is still possible. The thing is Jalen and chris were tight like Conley and Oden.
Once they got that chitown brotha Howard to go it was a rap.
King and Jackson were no where on par the players or the recruits that Howard, Webber and Jalen were.
But the man problem is you have to have some big game clutch Freshman like those guys were. Those guys played like Seniors not freshman. There are plenty of talented freshman but are they clutch like those guys. They might not have won the whole thing but they came up big in many big games.
Also sista Michelle you speak the truth as always.
If weed smoking 2 good years in the NBA can go to the hall of fame so can Webber.
But its all a joke based on the dumb @ss MSM. He11 Rodman is who of the greatest defenders and rebounders to ever play the game. Plus the dude has 5 rings and he isn’t in the HOF cause he stepped on these media fools toes as a player. What a joke.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:05 am
Michelle —
Agreed. I don’t live in a glass house, and hold nothing against that man for the incidents that had the team labeling him a “troublemaker” of sorts (don’t get me started on the legality of some of these things……… the icky…… another day, another topic!)
I can’t wait until a few young young players gather up and rival the Fab Five for an all-time spot……. with these “one-tourney stand” years, i think it’s likely to happen… I thought O.J. Mayo close… but he couldn’t get USC to give both he AND Kevin Love the right aMout of incentive$$$ to go………………….. let me stop.
http://www.mindritesports.com/2008/03/26/chris-webber-hanging-up-his-kicks/
March 27th, 2008 at 1:06 am
if memory serves….. it’s the Basketball hall of fame. not the Pro Basketball Hall of Fame. so if Laettner gets in it would be largely due to his time in College at Duke. Same reason there are a whole bunch of international guys in.
and the Ohio State thing isn’t fair because Lewis and Butler were there and were experienced seniors who went through the big ten wars and could caddy Oden, Conley, and Cook along until they got their sea legs.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:27 am
No Okori I was refering to how you said more then one top freshman wouldn’t go to the same school together.
So I mentioned that Oden and Conley made a deal to go to school together.
And like Tim said OJ and love did try to do the same. I guess USC didn’t have enought loot for both………..LOL!!!
March 27th, 2008 at 1:29 am
well yeah that’s true. it very rarely happens though. the last time this happened before OSU was Seton Hall University, and that was a disappointment.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Love the conversation guys. Good to have it back on TSF. Let’s keep this in mind most pro athletes will not win a title. My personal feeling is Chris has a higher calling in life and him not winning a title may keep him on the minds of some folks. He won 3 titles in hs against tough competiton in Detroit. Now that may not seem like a big enough stage for you but I’m looking at the entire resume. Just like the play in the Super Bowl when Eli hit the receiver on the last drive when he should have been sacked Horry hit that crazy shot to win the game against the Kings. C-Webb then went down with the knee injury when the Kings were the favorite to win the title that year. It’s like what’s happening to Dirk now no one knows why freak game winning plays happen or guys get injured at the wrong time. Titles are won when a lot of things happen and no one player in the league will get you one. Would C-Webb have a title if he were coached by Phil Jackson or Pop? Maybe, no one knows but you have to admit some players get all the luck the right teammates, coaches etc. Look at KG’s career it’s been full of disappointments and he’s been healthy. Maybe this year the ball will finally bounce his way.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Okori,
I know it’s the basketball HOF that’s exactly when C-Webb should be there. If Laetner gets in and he doesn’t, that’s really some BS. He only played well in college and was terrible in the NBA. He loses mad points for that.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:55 am
well they both have to wait a while.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:09 am
Okori,
Yep, that’s for certain. Good Evening mates. Thanks for the converation now I gotta go do a double at work. Ttyl.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:13 am
enjoy yourself. try not to headbutt anyone.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Joe Says:
March 27, 2008 at 4:30 am
Floyd is a stupid nigger. Nothing more and a lot less. Cocky stupid, and probally has AIDS. Fuck him.
You see what we deal with people?
March 27th, 2008 at 10:32 am
Damn…… just……. Damn. What a disgrace.
March 27th, 2008 at 10:50 am
As long as there is this Okori, there will be TSF. That’s why I was so passionate yesterday. I apologize if you thought you were the true target of my ire–you were not–but when some names are thrown in the mix I had to speak up.
March 27th, 2008 at 11:29 am
it’s ok. happens all the time. i easily get people pissed.
March 27th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
michelle,
lets not confuse webber the person with webber the washington bullet/wizard. i’m not even besmirching his entire career, only his stay in DC. People who lived in DC during that era, will tell you how frustrating it was to see webber, juwan and strickland just waste talent. But I hold Webber accountable because he was the most talent. Once he hit Sacramento, he got it together, but in the words of his brother-in-underachievement, “Whoopty damn doo”.
March 27th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
You mean in ‘96 when they lost to Mike and Pip 3-0 by a total of 6 points?
It wasn’t all bad there. Like we’ve all stated. Kids will be kids. Don’t front.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Michelle –
Though players get canonized by their high schools (rightfully) for bringing home those coveted state championships, admittedly, they don’t get much credit for it on the larger scale. Their true test comes by playing big on the national, collegiate and professional competition levels.
It’s “golf clap” vs. “standing O” in terms of recognition — see: james, lebron.
Mizzo –
As I wrote in my piece, Webber has a lot of “if only he had been healthy” moments in his playing career, which does his legacy a disservice. I almost want to compare him to Donovan McNabb at the moment, having been a great player so far in his career but having sat out because of injuries enough his legacy will have enough “but…” moments to have legitimate doubters (when speaking especially on winning championships). Though if those Iggles would give DMac a #1 receiver AND he stays relatively healthy…… big things would come.
March 27th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Duly noted, but as Michelle stated, was Laettner a better player than Webber? When it comes to the HOF, who the hell you think is getting in???
It ain’t the maize and blue…
March 27th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
I think he might get in first, as I said to Michelle, but Christian Laettner did have a phenomenal college career. He has at least earned that much praise for what he did at Duke.
March 27th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
So…success on the grand stage or kiddie land? That is not all together diminishing what Duke accomplished either, but some of those calls in the UNLV game and the Michigan game were mad suspect…and not coincidental by any means.
A country of sheep…I can’t fall for the hype these cats get out of college and end up busts. They have to be held accountable for their college careers as well.
March 27th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Heard talk about this on ESPN last night, said that Webber had a better chance getting in based on what he did at UM as opposed to his NBA career. And that was in jeopardy because UM erased all records during his time there.
Damn shame!
March 27th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
If Duke didn’t have Grant Hill, they don’t beat UNLV in 1991.
March 27th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Ok fine. Laettner sucks. His stupid records mean nothing. He begged for calls in the 2 National Championships he won, and the other 2 were just superior athleticism beating out him and his white-boy teammates? That what you want to hear?
By this logic only NBA players with NBA successes get voted in. No international players who for a variety of reasons never played in the NBA, no women’s players, no college-only coaches.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
He didn’t suck, I just don’t think they beat Vegas again w/o Hill. It’s the Elway Theory…you know no rings ’til Terrell Davis shows up. Hill added a running dimension that Duke did not have the prior season - the ability to have someone start and finish a fast break.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Yeah he sucks. Straight up. Thanks for saying it. If we can say the same about qb’s who won the Heisman…..Detmer, Weurfel..then we can say the same damn thing about basketball players. He didn’t beg for the calls…America did…figadeal me?
March 27th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
*exhales* that, Mizzo, is a bad argument. Because Detmer and Danny Wuerffel have a College Football hall of fame, where their achievements can be recognized while you and I both know they sucked out loud in the NFL. Christian Laettner does not have this luxury. His sport’s hall of fame is all-inclusive. So guys like him, whose college successes were noteworthy, are now put in the position of having to be compared to guys like Webber, who had better pro careers but not nearly as dominant of a college career.
This would be like if the NFL’s hall of fame was just the Football Hall of Fame. Then you’d have a situation where guys with dominant college resumes, but no professional laurels, get put in and ripped to shreds for being in while others get left out. It helps no one.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
It’s never a bad argument to speak on the wrongs as they happen. Shaq was actually the POY that year if you remember, he just wasn’t voted to win, so there’s where my anger was sparked.
Eff Christian Laetnner. He’s made out to be some national hero–to whom?
March 27th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
is there a college basketball hall of fame? because if there is Laettner belongs there, not in the pro basketball hall of fame. But as long as there isn’t his college career (all-time NCAA Tournament leader in Points, FT Attempts, FT Makes, and Games Played) is worthy of at least a little bit of credit. Not what the Mass Media gives you, but something.
and that whole Sucks thing… I was being sarcastic. I was raised to be respectful to people, even those with whom I disagree. It’s the midwestern boy in me.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Whooooa you are from the belly of the beast huh?
I hear you on the sucks thing. I apologize for my choice of words, but I will not let a false legacy live on while brothas are out there catching wreck for bullshit.
March 27th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Well try this one instead, and here is where I will agree with you: Christian Laettner had a good college career, and set some incredible tournament records. But is not fair to say that he was the best player in ACC history, or the best collegian of the 1990’s. That honor in the former falls to David Thompson, and in the latter probably goes to someone like Shaq or Duncan.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I’d argue Ralph Sampson in that regard. Yes Laettner had a decent career, but no where near how he’s celebrated. Six straight Final Fours by Coach K is sick, but a foul call here or there and that number might sink to far less. I’m not crying conspiracy, trust me but damn…the hype is ridiculous. When folks look back on college basketball 50 years from now, Laettner’s face is not the one they should see.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
I root for UNC so it pains me to admit a Duke player could be “great” in any way (Grant Hill excluded)…………….. but because i always try to remain objective, i must point out the obvious: Laettner had a “heckova” (George W. Bush, anyone?) four years at Duke. 4 final fours, 2 championships and he is the all-timer 3-point percentage leader at duke (we ALL know duke lives and dies by the three) with 48.5%…. all-time… respect is due for that man on the collegiate level.
There should be a college hall of fame. Laettner belongs there and is a perfect example of why an all-inclusive college+pro+pop warner HOF is more of a hastle than its worth. Not sure why there isn’t a separate one but someone with real money should make that happen so these issues will be no more.
Mizz — let me borrow a few K… and i’ll make this happen…… i’ll even get a TSF HOF in one of the side halls….
March 27th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Yeah I can do that if you can find my accountant.
Laetnner belongs in the College Hall of Fame. I’ll give you all that.
March 27th, 2008 at 5:58 pm
*cheese*
(not related to the “cheese” from The Wire, mind you… damn, METH, damn!)
March 27th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Laetnner is a factor of the double-standard of sports hype… and we’ve seen it more as minorities dominated the pro sports leagues. If a white player does something great, the majorities of the world get HYPED like crazy…. and then you have your laettner/god/chuck norris comparisons.
March 27th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
Another great college player but one who falls victim to the majority overhype………… See: Hansborough, Tyler
March 27th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
This just clarifies the point that there should be separate HOFs for College and Pro ball. See: NFL
March 27th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
exactly. just the point I was trying to make. Anyone who starts on a Final Four team his entire collegiate career is a Collegiate HOF.
Damn you eloquent bastards.
March 27th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
agreement all around. this sickens me! ha.
March 27th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
Is C-Webb an NBA HOFer?
March 27th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
His raw numbers put him in — 15 years, averaging 20 points, 4 assists and 9.8 rebounds. Postseason and injuries throughout (heard Legler say it was almost 3 whole seasons Webber missed due to injury) keep doubters alive. In the end, he’s in.
March 27th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
What happens when someone puts together pennies and creates the NCAA hoops HOF (by itself, no pro or amateur allowed)…… where do the Carmello Anthony’s, Kevin Durant’s and the soon-to-be-NBA-bound freshman phenoms go? Do they get any recognition? I’m thinking that’d be one of the harder parts about it. We’re talking about ranking kids who could’ve played just through eligibility (finite number) so a lot of the selection is subjective…… and damn if bias won’t come into play depending on geographic location and era of competition……. just thinking with my fingertips here…….
March 27th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
Anthony is in - only the third freshman to win Most Outstanding Player of the Tourney.
Durant is in - I believe the only freshman to win National Player of the Year and the Naismith.
They are in if for no more than historical points of reference.
March 27th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
he’s in TBR. Closer than you’d think but he’s in.
well i think those guys would get in, but it’d be a much harder road than the guys who were at least juniors.
I also maintain that 99.9 percent of kids coming out of HS could use at least 3 years of major-college ball. Here’s why: Different styles of play, the chance to develop good habits as opposed to bad habits, and the resurrection of the NCAA
March 27th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
TBR — agreed… i guess those are two of the most successful examples… jameer nelson won the naismith but fell short in the elite 8 his senior year… does he go? (i guess i’m looking for that allllllmost but not really kid who would be on the fence)
Okori — I don’t necessarily agree the kids would get a better development on the college level than the pro. Whose assistant coaches and facilities will be better for the kid coming out of high school — pros or collegiate. Even when you take Kentucky, Duke, UNC into the equation, with their top-tiered facilities, those budding stars should have the right to go into paid NBA internships, where they have access to the finest of what the sport has to offer — and even better (in the legal sense) the cash is ON the table!
I’m self-interested, though… these one-and-done tourneys are fantastic for the NCAA tourney…
March 27th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
Jameer Nelson has won more postseason awards for one season than ANY player in NCAA history.
When you go down the list of talented players that have won postseason awards and to have him sweep them all…that’s impressive.
March 27th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
indeed………. that’s crazy. keep me tuned in when someone finally creates those separate HOFs…
March 27th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
and Jameer had a solid career for his 3 years, and then blew up as a senior.
Tim: I’d argue that for 90 to 95 percent of the college kids coming out it’s… the NCAA. More focused coaching on just them, an increased focus on fundamentals, and the chance to be taught. Plus the longer you can be taught the more you can develop good muscle memory.
At the NBA level you’re expected to be a finished product more or less. And I would establish a committee with mental health professionals, NBA Scouts, and Strength and Conditioning Coaches, to determine the 4 or 6 highschoolers every year who could get a waiver.
March 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Jameer was a good freshman, he was a little reigned in because it was Marvin O’Connor’s team but he got his.
March 27th, 2008 at 9:13 pm
Okori should these Euro kids who turn pro at age 15 also go to college here in the states to work on their game. Its funny but I don’t even know if any of these foreign kids even finish highschool before going pro.
I mean many of these euro players need to work on their ball handling skills and ability to create their own shot. Also lets not forget on learning to play with their back to the basket and play defense.
March 27th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Howdy mates!
Just got home from doing a double and I have just one thing to say before I take a nap.
C-Webb deserves to be in the HOF. He better get in. Injuries or not he carried the Kings. They added pieces and got better each year but without him they are and were nothing. That’s in the wild wild west. The Lakers domination was crazy. They had the perfect mix of young and old talent along with a championship coach. Remember when they beat Tim Duccan’s Spurs by like 30pts a game in the playoffs? Yep just as I thought you don’t remember. Ok, Ok that was more than 1 thing but I would also like to add that head to head when C-Webb was healthy, he had classic battles with Duncan, Garnett and Dirk don’t get it twisted they played each other one on one. They usually cancelled each other out. Again, I’m speaking about his healthy years. I’ve got many battles on tape. It’s a shame the Kings didn’t win that year they would have stomped the Nets. Again,they didn’t have that mix. Just because you don’t win a title doesn’t mean your not a winner. I’m going to miss those sweet passes. I think he’s goint to be on TNT tonight with Kenny, Ernie and Charles. Ok that’s it I’m going to bed. I’ll be back up at 10p to do another double. Good night mates!! I know I sound all over the place I’m tired.
March 27th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
RE TBR: That’s something the NBA would have to work out with FIBA. It’s not a thing the NCAA has any particular jurisdiction over. However if Euros come over to play in the NCAA’s they are subject to the same rules as their american counterparts.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
When I credited TBR I meant Origin. sorry.