Friday Fire: Who Is 2008 NBA MVP?
I know, I know the season isn’t over and a lot lay in the balance, but hey man hey somebody gotta be first right? This discussion is devoid of stats because they really don’t matter here. It’s all about who is the most valuable to their respective team this season.
Here’s my picks along with some more Lil Stevie Fingertips bashin’.
Will this be the year?
MVP: Kobe Bryant
It’s not about the scoring average…or any other stats for that matter…because you know he’s going to get his. It’s very possible the West is overrated, and we’ll definitely see come June, but it remains fact that Kobe Bryant has carried this team the entire season. I’m still hot over all that Steve Nash slobbering, but if dude can win two without sniffing a ring (wins in the regular season does not mean you are a champion or are most valuable), then Kobe should have five by now. The NBA media will have history to pay if KB24 leaves the Lig without an MVP. He’s the most talented basketball player ever to play in the NBA. He’s done it with a roster in constant changeover and with Bynum in the lineup. There’s really no argument here. Stop playing and give the man what should have been his for at least 4 years now.
2nd: Chris Paul
The Hornets ride or die with CP3 as their leader
Not yet young fella. You had a great season and have demonstrated an amazing ability to lead–especially in money time. More Nash bashing in 2 seconds…I don’t see an Amare Stoudemire, or a Shawn Marion on the Hornets. Do you? The media handed Steve Nash two trophies not even a quarter of the way into the season…hmmm. So why isn’t Chris Paul being shown any love even though he plays defense and will put up 35 and 18 on any given night? The Hornets have put themselves in the upper echelon of a conference rockin’ all kinds of elite at the top. His competitive spirit is a testament of his upbringing. Think hard about that Nash comparison. It definitely holds weight.
3rd: LeBron James
Hypothetically, I’m the one Bron Bron is mean muggin’. I asked the Vogue question. Uh..Where’s Big Ben?
LeBron, no one has put up your numbers since uh…..Kobe? You’ve single handedly changed the league with your ridiculous ability to get to the rim and boof it on everyone. You are growing up before the eyes of the universe and I just can’t imagine how good you actually will end up being. Any other year I’d give this award to you without question, but dude you were just born the wrong time. You are Barkley, Malone, Stockton, GP, Dream and Pat Ewing to Kobe’s Michael. That’s just the way it is. It would be abominable for you to win while Kobe is still doing his thing on this level. Average a triple double for a season like you are capable of and the award is yours. Stop bullshittin’.
4th: Kevin Garnett
KG would rather have the ring
My pre-season pick was Kevin Garnett. In hindsight I have to say he has Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and a ridiculously underrated Rajon Rondo. I blew that one and I’ll own up to it to anyone who wants to give it to me.
KG is one of the most dynamic athletes of our generation. His combination of skill, will and personality is unparalleled. The Mighty Mos of the NBA. He’s smooth when he wants to be, but he’ll bang it on your head if you get him heated. He might not tell you he’s the best, but he’s definitely in the discussion. He’s the ultimate team player.
That all being said, KG has too much talent around him to cop this. He is the only player besides Nash to win MVP without getting to the NBA Finals. I really think he could care less as long as he’s gangsta leanin’ with wifey passenger seat ridin’ fine, grippin’ the wheel with June confetti supreme shine on his relaxed and smilin’ mind. I love KG as a player and I wish my boy Webb was healthy enough to challenge him properly so we could really see the best he has to offer.
I have to get this off my chest because I don’t want to be one of these pack writers climbing all over history’s back undeservedly.
Steve Nash has been a monster for four years, but why did he get the shot to scatter history? Dude wait your turn. You shouldn’t have been in line. His MVP awards will be forgotten and that’s kinda foul. He was more MVP awards than Bryant, James, Iverson and Webber combined (yeah I put Webber in there because his Sac team set the standard for all this runnin’ and gunnin’ that has become popular in the league). He actually won two straight! Looking back now, does it make sense that he did? He wasn’t even the best or most valuable player on his team.OK I’m done, but don’t cross me because I got a lot more where that comes from.
The 2007-2008 regular season is one of the best of all time. Where’s all the NBA hatin’? The KG and Prince Pauls and even the Thabo Sefaloshas and Reggie Evans have stepped up and shown the world why the NBA has the best athletes any league has to offer.
Kobe Bryant is the best athlete on the planet. Cement his NBA legacy by awarding him for all his hard work despite his faults and media collective, envious judgment.
Really should Mike’s son not get to play with the trinkets?
Sphere: Related Content
March 28th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
So LB is Mike’s cousin?
March 28th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Mizz if LeBron gives you that look, what would you do?
March 28th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Stop all the BS Mizzo. Steve Nash is the MVP this year. Name a player that can pass like him………..no one.
He single handedly brought back passing and the fast break to the NBA.
Even though he is slow and non athletic…….(he probably is the slowest player in the league) he is able to perform at a high level because of his mind. He is the smartest basketball player that I have ever seen.
Name one thing Steve Nash can’t do…………I once seen him D up both Baron Davis and AI. Holding them both to under 50 in a game.
Steve Nash is the greatest player of this generation and the greatest PG since Cousy.
He brought the NBA back from its death bed……..that is why he is the MVP.
Also his 2 MVPs were legit. Who cares if Kobe put up 81 points and avg 34 one season. Who cares if Lebron avg 30, 7 and 7 one year when Nash won the MVP.
And stop crying that nash has more MVPs then shaq. I mean what has shaq ever done. Taking 3 teams to the finals and leading 2 of those teams to championships. Anybody could do that with Kobe, Wade and Penny. I mean what does Nash have to work with……nothing. He has been on the less talented teams his whole career. He has played with a bunch of nobodies.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
my MVP is… meh. I don’t care.
If Paul wins it i’m not burning down the NBA offices, same with Kobe, Howard, or LeBron.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I would like to think at some point KB24 gathered his teammates and more or less explained his feelings for wanting to be traded hoped that they would accept it, reconcile and move on.
I credit his teammates just as much as KB24 for pulling it together.
Back in October it looked alot worse, as I had incorrectly predicted in my TSF debut piece.
http://thestartingfive.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/to-live-and-die-in-la-the-miracle-that-is-kevin-everett/#more-1333
March 28th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I was gonna submit another Friday Fire question but then I ate some cheese enchiladas, and then I forgot.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
Origin LOL
Carolyn you better not let anyone in Cleveland hear you say that.
LeBron is Oscar Robertson’s son just so you know and Elgin Baylor is his Godfather.
March 28th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I’d say….. Kobe for MVP, followed closely by Chris Paul (and you could easily make an argument for Chris if you felt like it), LeBron, Dwight Howard, and Garnett.
LVP easy: Zach Randolph.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Actually Okori couldn’t Yao be considered a LVP??
Its funny whne mcgrady was hurt and the rockets won some games all the talking heads were like the rockets can trade tracy he is holding them back. Now the rockets go on this winning streak without Yao and the talking heads don’t say trade Yao.
Anyway brotha Mizzo I just had to throw in a few laughs. But seriously I did see nash hold Baron and AI to under 50. LOL!!!
March 28th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Don’t get me wrong here about Garnett but is he really in the hunt?
This probably strengthens his MVP argument - Boston has made it look so easy for most of the season and Garnett hasn’t had the mind-blowing numbers or even the big games that we’re used to seeing from him for that matter. I will say this - talent aside - his attitude and desire to sacrifice his numbers in exchange for wins has taken players like Rajon Rando and Kedrick Perkins play to another level, Glen Davis is no longer “Big Baby”, he hustling out there like he’s been in the league 4-5 seasons. If K.G. won it, it wouldn’t bother me at all.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
[...] Continue Reading [...]
March 28th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
no. cuz the Rockets didn’t suck with Yao on the team. They were kind of good actually. And they did start this epic winning streak with Yao still playing.
Zach, on the other hand, was traded from Portland in the classic let’s get the bad influence out of the locker room trade and proceeded to put up empty numbers for one of the worst teams in the NBA.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
[...] mizzo put an intriguing blog post on Friday Fire: Who Is 2008 NBA MVP? [...]
March 28th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Kobe should win.
Chris Paul will win.
WE cannot underestimate how much the voters hate Kobe. Remember A LOT of them left him off their ballots all together in 2006.
I heart Chris Paul so I’m not going to wild out about it if he wins it.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Whether he put up empty numbers or not. he was never expected to be the savior of the franchise. I am comparing arguably the best center in the league leaving a team and they go on a 22 game winning streak. They have only lost what 3 games with yao out the line up. And their defense has improved.
Zack Randolp was a borderline all-star that went to a team that wasn’t that great.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
the LVP thing was not serious.
March 28th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
True CoCo……….the incident in Colorado is still eating at the voters minds. Could you imagine them having to give that Dude the MVP. Man those fools would commit hara-kiri. He11 if stern has to give the championship trophy to Kobe and the finals MVP Stern would commit hara-kiri. He11 you see the look on Sterns face last year when he had to give Kobe the All-star MVP trophy. Old fool looked sick.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
KOOOOOBBBBBBEEEEE
Origin and Okori,
You guys are funny.
March 28th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I speak for myself on this. I try.
March 28th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Chris Paul deserves it. He IS the Hornets offense. Nobody controls a game from start to finish like him, nobody directly generates as much of their team’s offense as he does (except LeBron), nobody handles the ball that much while keeping their turnovers so unbelievably low, and his team is #1 (for now anyway) in the toughest Western Conference field in league history. And, despite being so small he doesn’t really get abused on defense (unless he’s playing against Deron Williams). There isn’t anyone else in the league who can do what he does for that team. Give that boy his trophy.
Kobe’s been playing at a ridiculous level for a while now, but the Lakers only stopped being mediocre when Bynum, Farmar and Vuj!#@#$% started playing like real NBA players. And of course, they were also able to trade a buster for an All-Star. If anything, the Laker’s success tells me that Phil and Mitch need to be Coach and Executive of the Year. I’d put Kobe fourth behind Paul and LeBron.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:47 am
(Before I start…I wish we were talkin about C. Melo in this convo….maybe one year….)
I gotta go with Kobe…but man…people HATE that man. A co-worker of mine mumbles it just about every time Kobe scores. Its sad. But yeah…the Lakers can win without Pau…they can win without Bynum…but they can’t win without Kobe. If he would have went down for the length of time that either of these guys have…LA is in the 9th spot hoping to get in.
I think CP3 is going to get it. He makes this game look crazy easy. Flat out the best PG in the game and will stay that way for a long while. Nash is falling off and honestly…Deron Williams is a lot better than him ANYWAY. (I think his knee blew up the other night thanks to Rajon by the way).
James…he’s great, but a Kobe and Paul are doing better than him in key ways…this year at least. If soft a@# Dirk can get one…L James better get his….but not this year…
(Did I mention Melo all ready….)
April 1st, 2008 at 11:33 am
Kobe was my pre-season pick for MVP and he may very well get it. But I wouldn’t be upset if Chris P, King James or Garnett took home the honor.
mizz,
You know you’re my man, 20-grand, and….
But i don’t know about the comment regarding Kobe as the most talented to EVER play in the league.
April 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pm
He has no weakness. The only thing he’s missing is maybe LeBron’s brute strength.
I was hoping someone caught that.
Name someone who is more talented.
April 1st, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Sorry mizz, but he has weaknesses….
1. He’s not as good a defender as he once was. He basically gets voted to the All-Defensive team on name recognition. His defense inside the perimeter is not exactly great, especially in the low post where he’s vulnerable.
2. His shot selection is still questionable due to him not trusting his teammates. However, i will say that this year he has improved in that area, which is why I now label it as “questionable” as opposed to “dreadful”.
3. He’s not a physical player. If teams got more physical with him night in and night out, they’d have a bit more success against him. I guess that is largely due to the rules as you really can’t touch a player these days.
1. I would argue that Lebron is more talented but his defense sucks. He has another 6 or so years before he reaches his potential. Now that’s scary.
2. KG is just as talented and a much better defender. Hell, i would argue that he is more talented. What he does on the court is unheard of at his size and height. Of course they play different positions so it’s hard to compare the two.
3. D-Wade is just as talented and is an underrated defender.
4. Olajuwon was just as talented. He re-defined the center postion.
5. Oscar Robertson. My man average a triple-double for an entire season!
6. Julius Erving?(didn’t have a jump shot, but he could do everything else)
I’m sure there’s more but those were the ones who immediately came to mind.
Also, i’m assuming you forgot about Jordan……
April 1st, 2008 at 7:52 pm
I truly feel Kobe is more talented than Michael. Read the first link I provide. I basically come to this conclusion after speaking to a couple of historians.
I say Kobe based on evolution–not by dismissing past greats. Read the piece and get back to me.
April 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
I am just an ordinary fan enthralled with an extraordinary athlete and human being. I do not work for the Hornets.
This is FYI only.
Robert Applebaum
noapple@earthlink.net
THE SCOOP ON CHRIS PAUL
•CP3 is bidding to become the first player in 15 years and just the sixth in NBA history to average at least 20 points and 10 assists (joining Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Magic Johnson, Tim Hardaway and Tiny Archibald). He is also closing in on becoming the first player in NBA history to average at least 20 points, 10 assists and three steals.
•Team has surpassed last year’s win total (39), has the best road record (20-11) in the West and the most wins against the Western Conference (30). · Averaged over 20 points, 10 assists and three steals in both December and February, becoming the first player to post 20-10-3 in multiple months in NBA history. Only one other player has done it once during a season (John Stockton, 1990-91).
•Has four games of 25+ points and 15+ assists (the rest of the NBA has three combined) and has nine games of 20+ points and 15+ assists (the rest of the NBA has seven combined). Had consecutive games of 25+ points and 15+ assists 3/12 vs. SAS and 3/14 vs. LAL, marking the first time in 15 years a player has done so (Tim Hardaway, 1991-92).
•Had five straight games with 20+ points and 10+ assists from 3/5 to 3/14, totaling 138 points and 79 assists. Only two other players in NBA history have amassed that many points and assists in a five-game span (Magic Johnson, 1988-89, and Tiny Archibald, 1972-73).
•Had 31 points, 11 assists and nine steals, 2/20 vs. DAL, making him the just the fourth player in NBA history (along with Rick Barry, Larry Bird and Scottie Pippen) to have at least 30 points, double-digit assists and nine or more steals in the same game. · Has made or assisted on 48 percent of his team’s field goals this season. No other player has finished a season with such a high percentage since John Stockton in 1990-91.
•Had 16 points and 14 assists as a reserve for the Western Conference All-Star Team, becoming just the fourth player in All-Star Game history (along with Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas and Oscar Robertson) to reach 14+ points and 14+ assists in the game.
•Has at least one steal in all 63 games this season (longest current streak in the NBA)–a franchise record.
•Has 41 double-doubles (fifth in NBA, second among point guards) and 24 20/10 games. · Ranks in the top 10 in the NBA in steals, assists and free throw percentage (first in steals, second in assists, eighth in free throw percentage).
•NBA Western Conference Player of the Month (December) and Player of the Week (Dec. 24-Dec. 30).
Player of the week last week. And player of the month of March!!!
April 1st, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Check out the Moral Ruggedness piece I wrote for SLAM Robert.
April 1st, 2008 at 9:21 pm
He’s definitely making a case for himself, If the Hornets hold onto that #1 seed I don’t think you can deny him that award or Byron Scott as COY, although Mo Cheeks deserves some votes.
April 1st, 2008 at 9:23 pm
I wanted to clarify something. When I said Kobe was the most talented, I didn’t–by far–mean the best to ever play.
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:19 pm
mizz,
I understood what you were saying initially about Kobe. You definitely have a strong case as far as his talent goes. However, as talented as he is, we’ll have to respectfully agree to disagree on that one. But if Kobe does win the MVP, i own bragging rights on you guys b/c I called it at the start of the season.
Also, I read your piece in the first link. It was slammin’ (as usual). Reading it brought back a lot of fond memories of my man Doc. Before anyone wanted to be like Mike, we all wanted to be like Doc. At least i did.
April 2nd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
That’s cool bruh. Sometimes we all disagree..it happens.
Thanks for the props..and as far as Doc?
He’s that dude for me. I would whup some ass over Doc growing up.
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Lebron’s a bad dude but his team sucks in the East need I say more? Kobe was a bad dude last season but his team sucked too so he was out of the question. CP3’s aiiight but arrogant for a newcomer. Kobe Bryant AKA Da “Black Mamba” is hands down the most qualified MVP canidate for this years 2008 season. Out of every player in the NBA Kobe is reportedly said to be the most feared player today http://fannation.com/blogs/post/153977
THe only reason why he might not win is because of the many Laker haters out there and Kobe haters. But hating is expected when your best player on the best franchise in the NBA.
If you don’t have a RING it don’t mean a thing!!!
“Los Angeles Lakers 2007-2008 NBA World Champions”
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
CAAAAN YOOOUUUU DIIIIG IIITTT!!!
April 3rd, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Where’s the arrogance in Chris Paul? Dude seems fairly humble to me.
April 7th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
for those who believe Kobe should be MVP, how do you respond to these challenges?
lakersfiction.blogspot.com
April 8th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
I liked the bloq mizzo. I think I’m a fair guy and I read up on players before i trash them. I will say, kobe wasn’t my favorite for years because of little off court comments and hearing commentators gloss over his missed shots with “That was so jordanesk! HE ALMOST MADE IT!”
He has evolved much like Durant has and I started to soften up on him when I saw him playing more like a teammate. But I have to say Cp3
April 8th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I liked the bloq mizzo. I think I’m a fair guy and I read up on players before i trash them. I will say, kobe wasn’t my favorite for years because of little off court comments and hearing commentators gloss over his missed shots with “That was so jordanesk! HE ALMOST MADE IT!”
He has evolved much like Durant has and I started to soften up on him when I saw him playing more like a teammate. But I have to say CP3 should get be MVP. Not because of taking his team to the top of the west. Not for taking a average team farther then any other player on a team without aquiring outside help… But because he is doing BOTH and he is leading the league in steals and assist. Thats just too much… If mvp was based on stats alone i’d say lbj had it on kobe last year plus 08. But its not so I will say cp3 or garnett this year.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
He’s the most talented player ever?
To quote Lil Jon: Whhhhhaaaaaatttt?!?!?!
This is “WHY” kobe catches so much flack on sites & blogs like this..U guys keep making claims like that, but here’s my question..WHY IN THE HELL IS IT “NEVER” REFLECTED IN HIS BODY OF WORK?!?!
U claim it’s “Not about the Stats”, but those stats U kobe apologists CONSTANTLY try & disregard, are a summation of what he’s actually “DONE” for a game/season/career..It’s who he is & has been as a player in 12 yrs of play!
If he’s the most talented ever, why is it NEVER reflected in the skilled facets of the game? It is with EVERYONE else! U can’t seperate “Great” skill from “Great” stats! 1 is a DIRECT reflection of the other! U mean to tell me EVERY other player in the history of the game, has CONSISTENTLY put up BETTER marks than him? How’s that work? The Less talented players have ALL posted better marks? Get Real!!
There are players in the league RIGHT NOW with BETTER OVERALL Career marks than him!! But he’s the most talented ever? Whatever…
If we were debating if he was the most talented rebounder ever, don’t you think he’d CONSISTENTLY rank in the upper percentile of ALL rebounding averages & CONSTANTLY be a leader in Accolades regarding this category year in & year out for his career?
U mean to tell me that the so called “Most talented player ever”, (barring he wins this year), has never been an MVP. Never was the MVP in the Finals when he was there, Has shot the ball “LESS” than 40% for 1/3 of his career, has 0 Def Player Of The Year Awards, NOT among the Top 100 in assists, Not among the Top 50 in steals & Not among the Top 10 ALL TIME in points per game, he has NO Top 20 ALL TIME Season rankings, his Scoring & Shooting % get’s WORSE in the Playoffs, than they are in the Reg Season — this is where REAL LEGENDS are “MADE” & the list goes on & on!!
Not saying he sucks or anything, but this is why kobe catches it sooo much..
People don’t hate him, they hate his delusional fans..
April 14th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
For all the bs you’ve just laid out, give me some examples of someone more talented.
I’m by no means a Kobe “fan” even though I’m from the area where he played high school ball.
You can’t be a Sixer fan and love a Laker! That’s blasphemy
Chill out. Check out “Cricket” by Dance Hall Crashers. It was suggested to me by one of our astute readers
April 14th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
U want examples? Ok, I’ll give U a BASIC one!
The #1 area of Basketball where one will TYPICALLY find the guy with more PLAYER WINS, is efficiency.
Efficiency is the Big Man’s game! But yet, MJ is ranked #1 in ALL TIME PER!
He finished 1st 7 times & finished in the Top 2, 10 Times! They say never say never, but I say that’ll NEVER happen again..ever!! Not for a perimeter player!
Kobe’s never SEEN the Top 2 in PER (Player Efficiency Rating) in 12 years & he’s only finished in the Top 4 ONCE! If he’s the most “talented ever” as U claim, wouldn’t you expect Kobe to consistently finish in the top 2 in PER?
PER is BY FAR, the BEST measurement of talent and all-around basketball skills.
Shaq has finished in the Top 4 in PER 8 Times & Duncan, 6 times!!
Again, the “most talented player ever” CONSISTENTLY finish behind the guys he’s allegedly so much better than?
How does that work?
He may well INDEED be “THE” most INEFFICIENT 50+ pt game scorer in HISTORY!
Him having 7 of the WORST 15 50+ pt games from a shooting % & “THE” 3 WORST shooting 50+ pt games on record, proves it!! Hell, 68% of his 50+ pt games come against BAD to AVERAGE teams & that’s not my opinion..that’s a FACT..
In the 2002 Finals, Shaq CARRIED Kobe to another ring averaging 36ppg? even though he played LESS minutes & averaged LESS shot attempts than Kobe.
Kobe had 26ppg yet his turnover rate was 3.75. Not only did he score LESS than Shaq, on MORE minutes & FG Attempts, he turned the ball over MORE than a center!!
Is this something “The Most Talented Player Ever” does? I don’t think so…
In the next year, he moves into the Top 20 ALL TIME in “MISSED” shots! He ALREADY has more missed shots than people like Pippen, Shaq, Gervin & R. Parish! But he’s the “most talented ever”? C’mon!!
And in case U haven’t noticed, kobe’s production didn’t pick up until “AFTER” they changed the Defensive Rules!
U mean to tell me U NEVER noticed that?
Kobe Bryant in years that the NBA “DID” allow the handchecking technique:
561 games - 21.77 ppg on 42% shooting
Kobe Bryant in the final 3 years that handchecking was allowed (01-02, 02-03, 03-04)
227 games - 26.59ppg on 43% shooting
Kobe Bryant “SINCE” the new handchecking interpretation was instituted in 2004-05 (not including 07-08)
223 games - 32.75 ppg on 46% shooting
Kobe’s assists per game has “JUMPED” from a shade over 4 assists per game to 5.5 assists per game since the “ABSENCE” of handchecking. Further proof that the absence of handchecking has opened up the game & makes for easier scoring!
C’mon..what you’re implying is HYPE & nothing more..
April 14th, 2008 at 7:49 pm
Kobe Bryant is Michael Jordan with an improved jumper. I didn’t say Kobe Bryant was the best player ever. What I am saying is he’s implemented skills from a myriad of greats and streamlined his game as well as theirs.
Dig this piece here.
Kobe is a killer on the court but his doesn’t come close to the will of MJ.
April 14th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Mizz… did the song work?
April 14th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
“give me some examples of someone more talented.”
Just to give U an example of what I mean when I say his alleged ‘Superior Talent’, “NEVER” manifests itself in the areas that would actually VALIDATE his Superiority, just look at how he stacks up vs Pippen in 12 years of play…
And before U scream Kobe didn’t start his 1st 3 years, neither did Pippen..
In 12 seasons for BOTH Kobe & Pippen & this INCLUDES his #’s for this season:
Steals: Pippen 1869 > kobe 1299
Assists: Pippen 4737 > Kobe 3905
Blocks: Pippen 802 > Kobe 501
Rebounds: Pippen 5981 > Kobe 4472
Points: (even with MJ on the squad!) Pippen 21115 > Kobe 15713
2000 Points in a season: (again, even with MJ on the squad!) Pippen 4 > Kobe 0
80 game seasons: Pippen 5 > Kobe 4
Rings as the 2nd option: Pippen 6 > Kobe 3
Again, where’s the proof that would actually VALIDATE these claims because everytime I check, he keeps coming up short vs the people U guys say he so much better than..
How does this work?
April 14th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Yes it has Okori. I’ll let you know after I speak to the Cavs tonight.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
I gotta go dude. I feel your pain, but I guess 81 and the highest scoring average since Mike means nothing huh?
How about his ridiculous string of 40 point games. Imagine a baseball player hitting two home runs for 20 games or a football player scoring three touchdowns in the same span.
I don’t know why you hate Kobe so much, but the cat is the truth. Ask any player in the league–past or present.
Most historians will say Wilt is the best of all time, not Michael. Just read the piece.
Stats don’t mean anything. I could throw out all kinds of stats to prove pretty much anything.
Ease back.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:12 pm
“Kobe Bryant is Michael Jordan with an improved jumper”
What?!?! LOL!!!
Kobe has shot “WORSE” than his own team 9 out of 11 years & quite possibly at the conclusion of this season, 10 out of 12 years he’s been a pro! What are talkin about?
MJ has NEVER shot worse than his team as a Bull!
MJ has shot 50+% 6 times in his career & his WORSE season (1998 46%) shooting the ball as a Bull, “TIES” kobe’s “BEST” season EVER & MJ played that season with a cracked knucke & torn ligament on the index finger of his shooting hand!
Your argument makes zero sense because it’s not based on ANYTHING factual..
MJ with an improved jumpshot LOL!!! That’s funny..
Kobe’s CAREER shooting %’s
Sub-48%: REG SEASON: 470 games (60% of games) — PLAYOFFS: 84 games (64% of games)
Sub-46%: REG SEASON: 417 games (53% of games) — PLAYOFFS: 73 games (56% of games)
Sub-44%: REG SEASON: 353 games (45% of games) — PLAYOFFS: 64 games (49% of games)
Sub-42%: REG SEASON: 307 games (39% of games) — PLAYOFFS: 53 games (40% of games)
Break out’cha calculator & total that up, as far as the amount of games & the # of years it took to do this..it comes out to a shade over 4 years at UNDER 40%!!
Now does that look like someone who’s an allegedly BETTER at shooting the ball than MJ? Get Real!!
Hell Kobe has 25.9% of his points come from the freethrow line vs 22.7% for MJ.
It is “QUITE” impressive that MJ “STILL” manages a “HIGHER” pts per FGA than kobe. Excluding freethrows, MJ pts per FGA is “SIGNIFICANTLY” better than kobe’s.
Kobe “BEST” EFG% was .502%. MJ bested that 9 times, including his ROOKIE year & his Tops out at .550%!
Kobe’s best true shooting % for a season, from a EFG% standpoint, was last year at .580%. MJ had 6 seasons better than that, again, that includes his ROOKIE year, that topped out at a jaw dropping .614%!!
Man you’re trippin! Give me some of what you’ve been smokin’..LOL!!
April 14th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
I don’t down like that my brotha. I’ll continue this after the game tonight. Read the piece.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I’m sorry, but kobe’s NOT this shooter U claim he is because if he were, it’d be reflected in his shooting %’s!
He’s a VOLUME shooter & a VOLUME scorer. He takes TONS of shots, just to be able to AVERAGE 20+ppg on MEDIOCRE mid to LOWER 40% shooting..
Just to give U yet ANOTHER example of how INEFFICIENT he TRULY is at shooting, in 1983 Alex English took 1857 shots, Mark Aguirre took 1589 shots, & George Gervin took 1553 shots, which shows you the UNSELFISHNESS of the league in this era, compared to the NBA in2008.
Kobe in 2006, took 2173 shots! He missed 1195 (45%), which is close to how many shots these other guys took in a single season!! And U claim he’s BETTER at shooting than MJ?!?!?
LOL!!!! Wow…
Again, I ask the question..If he’s what U say he is, why does it NEVER show up in the areas of the game that would VALIDATE your claims of him?
It does with everyone else! Everybody else who’s EVER been great at ANYTHING regarding their individual sport, can point to their body of work as a frame of reference to SUBSTANTIATE their Greatness…Why is this not the case for Kobe, if he’s supposed to be “The MOST talented player ever”? Why?
April 14th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
“Stats don’t mean anything.”
How can “NOT” prove anything? What are U talkin about? Those stats you’re trying to disregard are a summation of what he did on the floor that night, that season & for his career. If he did ANYTHING better than anyone else for that game/season or a career & WILL INDEED be reflected in the one area guys like yourself try so hard to get around when it comes to kobe.
Besides, If they didn’t prove anything, then why’d U say & I quote:
“I guess 81 and the highest scoring average since Mike means nothing huh?”
Gee, how’d U know that? Because a STAT told U! U again UNDERMINED your own argument when U said & I quote:
“I could throw out all kinds of stats to prove pretty much anything.”
And U could, if those stats INDEED reflected the sentiments you’re trying to relay, which in turn would DISCREDITS your previous comments about them not proving anything..
“How about his ridiculous string of 40 point games.”
What about ‘em? When U wanna say he’s the “most talented player ever” & compare him to MJ, it’s irrelevant because U “HAVE TO” judge him by the standard MJ established! U wanna talk about 40 pt games? Ok then I’ll start it off:
MJ AVERAGED 43 pts in the PLAYOFFS, where legends are MADE, vs arguably the Greatest Team ever & DEFINITELY the Greatest Frontline Ever, in the ‘86 Celts..after being GONE MOST of the year with a BROKEN foot!!
MJ AVERAGED 40+ from Mid March to mid April in (a span of 16 games)..
MJ Averaged 40 pts in the ‘93 Finals
40 PT PLAYOFF Games: MJ: 38 > KB: 4
In MJ’s 40 point games since 1986 to 2003, discounting playoff 40 point games & ONLY looking at regular season games, has shot the ball for 50% or better 105 times!
In kobe bryant’s 40 point games since 1996 to 2007, discounting playoff 40 point games & ONLY looking at regular season games, he’s ONLY shot the ball 50% or better 27 times
and U wanna compare all of this to MJ & claim he’s “More Talented”? LOL!!!! C’mon on man, get real…
And U wanna talk about Highest Scoring avg since MJ? That’s not saying ANYTHING considering U claim he’s more talented!
There hasn’t been “ONE” Scoring Champion to win the Scoring Title while making over 50% of his shots, since MJ retired….NOT ONE!!
If kobe the “most talented player ever”, he’d have at least ONE season over 47% from the field & he’d have well more than 2 scoring titles.
He’d also have more than ONE game in the playoffs over 50 points. He wouldn’t have shot 38% in the ‘04 Finals, essentially shooting them out of the series. He also wouldn’t have shot 36% in the ‘00 Finals on 14ppg against Reggie Miller’s defense.
Just to highlight how inefficient kobe is, Miller for his CAREER shot 48% from the field & he was SOLELY a jump shooter, in a MUCH physical era. MJ’s CAREER FG% as a Chicago Bull, is 51%. Glen Rice one season shot 47% in 3-pointers ALONE..that’s not even his regular FG%!
And again, this was during the toughest defensive era in league history! He also that same year, AVERAGED 27ppg on 47% from the field & he like miller, was PRIMARILY a jump shooter. Kobe has NEVER averaged 1 point at 47% shooting for a season, while Rice did it in 3’s & Regular FG% during the SAME season. I UTTERLY rebuke the notion that kobe is “the most talented player ever”…
I’ll entertain that notion when his CAREER FG% is 48% or higher. Get at me when his CAREER FG% in the Playoffs, against Playoff level defenses, is even over 45%..
And I don’t “Hate” him, I’m just not buying this “He’s the most talented ever” hype because if he were, the FACTS would indicate it.
U can “ONLY” call it “Hating” if someone is in opposition of someone & the reasons they use “AREN’T” true. I’m stating the FACTS, so how’s it “Hating”?
I didn’t make up kobe’s #’s & averages..he did..
April 15th, 2008 at 12:11 am
[...] what exactly the title “Most Valuable” means and how it should be bestowed. With the NBA MVP debate raging, I could conceivably rattle off a few paragraphs on my own particular interpretation of the [...]
April 15th, 2008 at 3:11 am
I must say you have thrown out stats I wouldn’t even think of.
I gotta give you that.
I ask you then, who is the most talented basketball player of all time?
If you could mold the perfect player who would that player resemble?
If you read my piece on the evolution of the slasher you would understand where I’m coming from.
AGAIN….I never said Kobe Bryant was better than Mike. What I said was he is the preeminent player of his generation…just like Mike…just like Doc.
April 15th, 2008 at 3:12 am
Where was all this shit when STEVE NASH AND DIRK were jacking trophies from LeBron and Shaq????
Someone please answer me that question…
Please?
April 15th, 2008 at 9:16 am
Kobe - most talented of all timezzz Mizzo??!?
Word? He’s in the conversation, but is he ‘the one.’
Can Kareem Abdul-Jabbar get a little love for skillz, knowledge of the game, endurance, durability, and the ability to do absolutely EVERYTHING on the court? And, with that said, he might even be the guy…but you could root around within that franchise and probably not miss by much.
Honestly, I don’t what your criteria are - but I’m all ears. And, of course, your boy makes some serious points about MJ.
April 15th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
“If you read my piece on the evolution of the slasher you would understand where I’m coming from.”
Kobe has “NEVER”..and I mean, “NEVER” been the “Slasher” & freak of nature athlete that MJ circa 1984-93 was, so please..don’t even go there..
I don’t recall kobe being on record & being clocked at CONSISTENTLY having a 4.2 in the 40 yard dash, as MJ did in his prime…Kobe’s best 40 time is on record at 4.5..
I don’t recall kobe being on record as CONSISTENTLY having a 44-46 inch vertical leap, as he MJ did & had in his prime..Kobe’s “BEST” to this date, is on record as 38 inches..
So please, U can kill that “Evolution of the slasher” business..
Besides, look at “EVERY” game kobe has gone for 50+ points, he AVERAGES about 7 to 10 3 pointers & 16 free thows. The change in the defensive rules, as I’ve stated before, has GREATLY aided him in getting to the charity stripe. You’ll “NEVER” see him score big like that WITHOUT the aid of a HIGH VOLUME of BOTH. He relies on it because:
A) he’s ALWAYS “LACKED” the physical ability to CONSISTENTLY attack the rim for better % shots. That’s why U see him hoisting a ton a 3 ptrs to score a lot of points. He HEAVILY relies on it. The 3 pointer is what allows him to score “Like Mike” & to even be in this conversation from a scoring standpoint. MJ didn’t need a TON of 3’s to go off like that. That’s the BIGGEST difference between them.. And:
B) Can’t CONSISTENTLY knock down the “Mid Range” jumpers, as indicated by his #76 ranking in the league in Mid Range Jumpers “MADE”. (See NBA Hot Zones as a reference)
Again, his jump shooting ability has for his CAREER, been ANEMIC! And that’s puttin’ it MILDLY!! Check his shooting %’s throughout his career! No Great shooter CONSISTENTLY posts the paltry shooting %’s he has for his career!
Kobe has modeled his game after MJ circa 1996-98, the MJ that had lost a CONSIDERABLE amount of explosiveness off the dribble & didn’t jump a high, but was “STILL” better than ALL OF THEM & those WEREN’T even his “Prime” years!
Hell, that MJ is BETTER than anyone in the league RIGHT NOW!!
“I ask you then, who is the most talented basketball player of all time?”
That’s debatable, because there are others JUST as worthy of that honor because their body of work, WARRANTS that consideration. It takes a SUPERIOR talent to garner those SUPERIOR marks & to manifest into a SUPERIOR body of work & I can VEHEMENTLY say, it sure as hell aint kobe…
“AGAIN….I never said Kobe Bryant was better than Mike. What I said was he is the preeminent player of his generation”
No, that’s “NOT” what U said…U said & I quote:
“He’s (that being kobe) the most talented basketball player to ever play in the NBA..”
That’s saying he’s BETTER than anyone who came before him & after him & that’s absurd, if for nothing else, it’s not substantiated by ANYTHING factual, as it is for all the other LEGENDS who have a LEGITIMATE claim to that title..
April 15th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I don’t even have to compare him to MJ to prove how absurd the notion of him being the “Most Talented Ever” is because that in itself is a joke & a BAD one at that..
Comparing kobe to MJ is like comparing a tom-cat to a Lion. Just because kobe does a good job of pattering his game after the “Older” MJ circa ‘96-’98, “DOESN’T” mean he’s his equal or better, “ESPECIALLY” since his production from this “mimicking” isn’t “NEARLY” as comparable as the person he’s copying.
At “BEST”, kobe is a bootleg version of the Older MJ from ‘96-’98, but again, those “AREN’T” MJ’s Prime years.
For the record, I think Kobe “IS” a phenomenal talent & his style of play is fun to watch. But being fun to watch does not = greatness, especially when it’s NOT substantiated by his body of work..
But let’s take a look at how the alleged “Most Talented Ever” stacks up vs one of his CURRENT peers..that being Lebron James..let us look:
Performances vs Conferences
LeBron vs the West
29.8ppg 7.9reb 7.1ast 2.0stl 1.1blk 48.4%fg 33.1%3pt 68.0%ft 3.6 T.O.’s
Kobe vs the West
29.3ppg 6.1reb 5.5ast 2.1stl .6blk 48.3%fg 33.1%3pt 81.6%ft 3.6 T.O.’s
Looks about even to me..where’s his superiority?
LeBron vs the East
31.9ppg 8.1reb 7.6ast 2.0st 1.0blk 49.9%fg 31.1%3pt 74.8%ft 3.2 T.O.’s
Kobe vs the East
26.4ppg 5.5reb 5.3ast 1.7stl .5blk 43.6%fg 36.4%3pt 88.5%ft 3.1 T.O.’s
Advantage: Lebron —– NAIL IN THE COFFIN
Pre All-Star Break
LeBron: 30.3ppg 7.8reb 7.3ast 2.1stl 1.1blk 48.4%fg 30.5%3pt 70.9%ft 3.4 T.O.’s
Kobe: 28.0ppg 6.1reb 5.3ast 1.9stl .5blk 45.7%fg 35.2%3pt 85.7%ft 3.4 T.O.’s
Again, where’s his alleged superiority? Why is it that ALL of the player’s that are allegedly inferior to him, seem to CONSISTENTLY post SUPERIOR overall production than him? How does that work?
Post All-Star Break
LeBron: 33.6ppg 8.8reb 7.8ast 1.55stl .82blk 49.8%fg 36.2%3pt 74.8%ft 3.4 T.O.’s
Kobe: 28.5ppg 6.0reb 5.3ast 2.5stl .5blk 48.4%fg 30.0%3pt 83.2%ft 3.5 T.O.’s
Again, what’s the deal? Noticing a trend?
In Wins
LeBron: 32.1ppg 8.8reb 7.9ast 2.25stl 1.11blk 48.9%fg 32.8%3pt 72.0%ft 3.3 T.O.’s
Kobe: 28.0ppg 5.9reb 5.4ast 2.2stl .5blk 46.4%fg 37.6%3pt 86.2%ft 3.3 T.O.’s
Notice the FG%’s in all of these comparisons…
In Losses
LeBron: 28.9ppg 6.7reb 6.6ast 1.5stl .9blk 48.4%fg 30.1%3pt 68.8%ft 3.4 T.O.’s
Kobe: 28.3ppg 6.4reb 5.1ast 1.4stl .6blk 41.6%fg 28.1%3pt 81.1%ft 3.7 T.O.’s
Slight advantage for Lebron..I know I sound like a broken record but again, look at the FG% of both players..
This is a DIRECT result of having LESS CONSISTENCY than LeBron. LeBron has FEWER “OFF” nights, which means he is MORE VALUABLE & RELIABLE to his team.
April 19th, 2008 at 6:27 am
LoL stonecold you are a nightmare with those stats. A blogger would have to spend the better of his life hunting down rebuttals… doesn’t seem worth it because in the end your right.
As for mizzo, what is your take on an LAL vs BOS final?
What ever your pick for mvp, how do you think LBJ would change the atmosphere in a LAL/BOS finals if he could replace Kobe on the Lakers. (who would win)
April 19th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Yeah he was. My statement about Kobe was strictly because of his NBA lineage. Those stats are correct, but when it’s all said and done, how do you think Kobe will be revered historically? Kobe and LeBron are far ahead of their peers but Kobe was that cat until LeBron burst on the scene. 81 is 81.
That’s the final I have eQ.
Kobe has three rings. LBJ–besides San Antonio of course–has yet to play a team as good as the Kings were during that reign. He’s not as battle tested because he’s still a kid in the league but as time goes on he will dominate and I see a couple triple double seasons for Bron Bron. He’s not Kobe yet.
April 20th, 2008 at 2:02 am
[...] [...]
April 22nd, 2008 at 8:57 pm
“but as time goes on he (LeBron) will dominate”
He’s dominating now..
Look at his 3rd season as a Pro vs MJ’s:
MJ: 37ppg 5apg 6rpg 85% FT 49% FG% 2.8spg 1.7bpg
LBJ: 31ppg 6apg 7rpg 78% FT 48% FG% 1.6spg .8bpg
Not to mention, MJ had a 29.8 PER that year vs a 28.1 for Lebron. That’s UNHEARD of for a Perimeter player!
Due to factors like shooting %’s, it’s almost impossible for a guard or small forward to post a high mark above 25.
MJ’s CAREER PER 28.1..making him the ONLY perimeter player to have one that high. Kobe’s BEST PER for a season, TO DATE, is ONLY 27.4.
“He’s not Kobe yet.”
One could make a STRONG argument that he’s BETTER..Not to mention, in head to head meetings the last 5 times, Lebron is 5-0 & has posted BETTER OVERALL production across the board..
Look at Lebron V Kobe, just this season alone:
Kobe Bryant LeBron James
PPG: 28.2 (2nd) PPG: 30.9 (1st)
APG: 5.2 (21st) APG: 7.5 (7th)
RPG: 6.2 (44th) RPG: 8.1 (30th)
SPG: 2.0 (7th) SPG: 1.9 (9th)
FG %: .452 FG %: .485
C’mon man..once again I pose the question. If kobe’s so superior to lebron, WHY IS IT “NEVER” REFLECTED IN THE FACETS OF THE GAME THAT’LL “SHOW” HIS SUPERIORITY?
And U claim kobe’s the MVP? C’mon man..stop playin’ yo..
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:23 pm
God Damn.
Mizzo, will you respond?
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I don’t know why that last post posted their averages & crunched them together like that, so here they are again:
Look at Lebron V Kobe just this season alone:
PPG: Lebron 30.9 (1st) > kobe 28.2 (2nd)
APG: Lebron 7.5 (7th) > kobe 5.2 (21st)
RPG: Lebron 8.1 (30th) > 6.2 (44th)
SPG: Lebron 1.9 (9th) kobe.452%
Keep in mind, Lebron has BESTED kobe’s BEST season shooting the ball (46%) 3 TIMES already…
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Ughhhhh!!! Let’s try this one more time..
Look at Lebron V Kobe just this season alone:
PPG: Lebron 30.9 (1st) > kobe 28.2 (2nd)
APG: Lebron 7.5 (7th) > kobe 5.2 (21st)
RPG: Lebron 8.1 (30th) > 6.2 (44th)
SPG: Lebron 1.9 (9th) kobe .452 FG%
Keep in mind, Lebron has BESTED kobe’s BEST season of shooting the ball (46%) 3 TIMES already…
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:32 pm
Damn, I don’t know “WHY” I can’t get this to say:
SPG: Lebron 1.9 (9th) kobe .452 FG%
Hopefully, this comes out right this time..
April 22nd, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I give up..I can’t get it to compare their steals per game avg’s correctly..there’s a glitch in the system or something..
May 5th, 2008 at 2:39 am
chris paul deserves MVP award more than KB24. don’t get yourselves too sympathetic to KB24, yes he’s good but he has more help from his teamates. he has bynum and odom in the regular season and now with pau gasol, i thnk that’s a lot of firepower in the team. with chris paul, he lifted his team from scratch and now in the second round and a win from san antonio (with bruce bowen on his face). yes he aslo has chandler and west but remember paul’s role in the team, he makes his teamates’ improve. i think that’s what MVP means. kobe does not make his teamates rise rather scores on his own.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
“chris paul deserves MVP award”
No argument from me. I agree 100%. For the record, let me state AGAIN, I DO think kobe is a Great Guard. I’d also like to congratulate him on winning the MVP this year, since this appears to be the case this year.
My whole argument was he’s NOT what people make him out to be when they start in with the whole mania of “He’s the Greatest Ever” or “He’s the most talented or skilled ever” argument, because it’s not SUBSTANTIATED by ANYTHING Factual.
I also don’t agree that he’s BETTER than some of the people his fans keep trying to say he is, because when the FACTS are introduced, the crickets commence & the same old argument or charges are brought forward by his fans: “You’re a hater..b*tch, f*g, wh*re, etc..” LOL!!
It’s almost as if they forget they’ve chosen to engage in a debate & they’ve violated Rule #1 when it comes to debating: NEVER USE YOUR OPINIONS AS FACT, IF U CAN’T VALIDATE ‘EM..
Somehow,they confuse “Questioning” kobe’s body of work, with “Criticizing” it. They automatically take the position of you must be “Against” him, if U don’t agree with their beliefs regarding his game & somehow judging him by what he’s CONSISTENTLY done as player is “Wrong”.
If U leave it to them to tell it, us fans of the GAME itself, should just accept their “Opinions” as proof enough & ignore the FACTS, despite the FACT that they stand a STARK 180 degrees opposite of their fanboy opinions..
This is what U tend to wind up dealing with when U engage kobe fans..