Matt Ryan Or Michael Vick: For the Fans, Is It All About Black and White?
Is there a movement to change the demography of Atlanta Falcons fans?
Michael Vick is still the most talked about athlete in Atlanta and he isn’t even in the damn city! Since last Saturday there’s been a big debate about why the fans in Atlanta are not happy about the Matt Ryan pick at number 3.
All of the Falcons fans I’ve talked to (diehard and casual) that don’t like the pick only dislike it because they are not convinced Matt Ryan was the best player available when the Falcon’s pick came up. It’s no secret the Falcons need a quarterback, but it’s also no secret that the Falcons need to build the defensive and offensive lines. Most fans thought if Glen Dorsey was still on the board when the Falcons pick came up they would jump on him. That didn’t happen, and some of the fans are a little pissed about it.
All football fans know defense wins games. Look at what the New York Giants did in the Super Bowl. Their defense on Tom Brady made up for the fact that Eli didn’t have a great game. A quarterback is extremely important, however if you ask some of the most recent Super Bowl winners what got them there they’ll say defense.
Yesterday one of the radio shows had a big discussion about the fans not accepting Matt Ryan because he’s not black. White people pulling the race card, imagine that. CBS 46 anchor Gil Tyree sort of got the ball rolling on this debate.
This is a sample of what he had to say to Peter King after the draft:
“This city’s history is built on racial divide,” says Gil Tyree, sports anchor for WGCL-TV in Atlanta. “Michael Vick had a hold over this city that no athlete will ever have again. Everybody wonders, ‘Is Mike coming back?’ Or ‘When’s Mike coming back?’ These people won’t forget him. He’s a messiah here.”After Ryan was picked, Tyree led his sportscast by saying, “It’s now officially the end of the Michael Vick era.” Afterward, when he was asked how area fans would receive their new quarterback, Tyree said, “No matter what Matt Ryan will do, he’ll never be accepted.
Will he get a fair shot?
This is a little shortsighted for a number of reasons and I’m surprised Gil would paint so many fans with such a broad brush. While Mike Vick has had a tremendous impact on Atlanta and the NFL as a whole, he didn’t have every Falcons fan of color wrapped around his finger.
In the interest of full disclosure, you should know that I am not really a Falcons fan. I watch them because I live in Atlanta and I’m forced to, but they are not the team I root for.
My personal rooting interest aside, I’m offended that all of the African American fans of the Falcons are being accused of hating Matt Ryan just because he’s white. While there is a large group of people who have decided to support Vick for better or for worse, there are a lot of fans who support the team above any of its players. These people are getting unfairly lumped into the same category as the others.
I know this may be hard to believe, but not all African American Falcons fans believed Vick was the be all, end all at the QB position. As far as I can tell, most Falcons fans (black, brown or white) fall into one of three groups where Mike Vick is concerned. There are about 40 % of the fans who loved Vick and everything about his game. They thought he was the perfect man to get Atlanta back to the Super Bowl. There are about 40% of the fans who thought Vick was playing the wrong position. They fancied him as a running back or a wide receiver. Then there’s the other 20% of fans who saw Vick for what he really was, a pretty good quarterback. They don’t think he was as great as those who loved him thought he was, nor do they think he was as bad as those who hated him thought he was.
There are some fans that choose alliances based on race, but they aren’t the majority. Most fans aren’t that ignorant. A lot of African American Falcons fans genuinely root for the team and not just one player as they’ve been accused of doing time and time again.
People are constantly making it seem like all African American Falcons fans aren’t as passionate about the team as they are about Mike Vick. That sort of thinking couldn’t be more ridiculous. Mike Vick did/does have a lot of fans, but his fan base is not exclusively comprised of people who are only pro Falcons as long as he’s on the team. There are a lot of fans who are old enough to have rooted for the Falcons when Steve Bartkowski was the QB. They also remember rooting for the team when they drafted Brett Favre. Let’s not forget about the people who rooted for the team back when Deion Sanders was a member of it. These are just some of the people that get lost in the shuffle of all this race related nonsense.
The implication that all African American Falcons fans can’t see past race is offensive and it needs to stop. Matt Ryan is going to have the same opportunity any other quarterback would with the fans in Atlanta. If he comes out and produces, real Falcons fans will love him. If he doesn’t produce, they’ll hate him. They’re pretty much going to treat him like the fans in other cities treats their quarterbacks. At the end of the day he won’t be judged by the color of his skin so much as he’ll be judged by wins and losses.
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May 2nd, 2008 at 12:40 pm
I do think Matt Ryan will not get a fair shot, its not because he is white either, its because he is coming behind the ATL version of Dan Marino/John Elway/Troy Aikman, he is following a legend and that always is going to lead to undue criticism.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:43 pm
It’s like my homegirl Miranda said and i’m paraphrasing here:
“The dynamic going on here in the ATL is that the stands were too dark, the wrong kind of music was playing, and the tailgating was just completely unacceptable.”
Matt Ryan will fare no better than Peyton Manning or Tom Brady would behind those 5 back up players (at best) that they call an offensive line. Dorsey would’ve been the correct pick to stop some of the bleeding on defense but Darren McFadden would’ve put us black folk back in the stands this fall.
….but maybe ole Arthur wasn’t feelin’ them “off da chain” tailgate parties down at the Dome.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
The Falcons didn’t need Dorsey or McFadden. I mean D-fense is middle of the pack last year. They now have Turner and Jerious Norwood so their RB core is deep and talented.
THEY NEED A O-LINE.
It makes no sense to me that in a rebuilding year, knowing how bad their line is that it had them starting 3 QBs last year, that they made no move to improve it. There were too many quality linemen for them to not center this draft around improving that first, then finding a Eric Ainge (Who I predict will be the next great QB in the league) instead of getting the weak Matt Ryan who wasn’t even good in college.
May 2nd, 2008 at 12:54 pm
This is Co Co’s work so I don’t want to hijack here thread, but there seemed to be a spirited campaign to ensure Matt Ryan was picked by the Falcons.
Is he the best quarterback in this year’s draft?
What the hell happened to Andre Woodson’s draft stock?
The kid killed the SEC and damn near went 6 games before he threw an interception.
They were touting him then as the number 1 pick in the draft but after that first interception he was ghost and never hear of again until they slammed in post season/workout allstar games.
I guess the fans don’t matter and the off da chain parties were too much GN.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I was sorta surprised by the Ryan pick but not shocked, I had them taking Vernon Gholston on the strength that he or Glenn Dorsey would play right away. I don’t think Ryan is ready to make that step just yet…but I could be wrong
As for the fans feelings, it was sorta the same climate here when we had Randall Cunningham. I remember one guy saying that he didn’t like him because “he didn’t play in the spirit of the game like Joe Montana.” Because he wasn’t a drop back passer he wasn’t a legit QB?
I mentioned Fran Tarkenton who ran for his life seemingly on every play and he mentioned how he threw for over 40,000 yards; ok Randall threw for just under 30,000. As much as I loved Steve Young as a player, he was never dealt that scrutiny. 30k passing is in the same ballpark as 10,000 rushing, it’s a benchmark for QBs. And if you look at it guys like Randall, Vick and others are working twice as hard (running and passing) to get a win.
But no one mentions that.
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:34 pm
I think the Falcons wanted the supposed most pro-ready QB to get out of the MV phase so they made the move to get Ryan. Is he the best, hell no.
As for Woodson, well he is in a good place, what is better than being a QB on the Super Bowl Champs team. This means he doesn’t have to worry about perfoming out of the blocks, he will have time to be built up properly and groomed into a NFL QB the right way, there is nothing wrong with that.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:12 pm
At this point, the Falcons need to build a defense just like they need an offense. The Falcons need a run stuffer like Dorsey, because they no longer have Rod Coleman, but the McFadden pick would’ve put fans back into the stands. No, they didn’t NEED McFadden, but that pick wouldn’t have hurt them.
Michael Turner is not a proven back and Norwood is not a durable back. The pickup of Michael Turner proves that the Falcons aren’t really “sold” on Norwood being the featured back. Norwood’s not a good runner through the trenches and if a defender gets their hands on him, more than likely he’s going down.
ATL fans have been saying for at least 10+ years we need an Offensive line. so that’s not “new” news to us.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Mizz,
I was listening to the 2Live Stews last week and they had an expert “draft guy” on (i apologize for forgetting his name), who gave his thoughts on why Woodson fell as far as he did. He said that Woodson hurt his stock in the Senior Bowl. I didn’t see the Senior Bowl so I can’t comment on that.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:15 pm
I can’t think of too many backup RBs that became free agents and really tore things up with their new squad off the top of my head.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:54 pm
GN: 1. The Falcons would be best served creating a solid O-line than working on the D-fense. I don’t think defensively they are the worst in the league, but their O-line has been the worst in the league or close to the worst for the longest time. They need to address that issue first, you will never have a solid run game if they know you can’t throw because your line can’t protect its QB in a 3 step drop. Like Miami they should be building up a O-line and drafting one of the solid O-line options they had on the table this year, there is no reason for them to skip on that for Matt Ryan.
As for Michael Turner he is a proven back, as a back up to LT he puts up big yards and that is a great feat, he is proven in the league. As for Jerious Norwood, there are no dependability issues with him. He had no fumbles last year, only missed one game, had 124 less carries than Warrick Dunn, but only 104 yards less total rushing yards than him. The problem is they never used him.
As for Jerious breaking tackles, he looks good breaking them to me in that games I saw him in, but he is more of a quick runner than Turner who is a power guy, which is why they work perfectly together and why they don’t need McFadden. Hell the Raiders didn’t need McFadden they had 5 good-great RBs on their roster already, but that is another story.
As for Andre Woodson, the story was that he had a weak arm at senior day workouts.http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/01/22/risers.sliders2/1.html
TBR:
I can’t think of any off the top of my head, but I can think of backups that became great, and that is all that really matters, the free agent process really doesn’t matter.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The free agent process doesn’t matter? How so? What backups became great, and what do you define as great.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:35 pm
You’ll have to define “tear it up,” but this is not unprecedented in the league.
Priest Holmes (backup in Baltimore; star in KC)
Chester Taylor (backup in Baltimore; 1200 yds. in Minnesota - season 1; 5.4 yards per carry - season 2)
Marcus Allen (backup in LA; Pro-Bowl next season in KC)
James Brooks (backup in SD behind Chuck Muncie; 3 1,000 yd seasons in Cincy)
Reuben Droughns (2 yr. backup in Denver, 1 yr. starter; 1200 yds in Cleveland)
Travis Henry (sort of) — (3yrs starter in Buffalo - 1 yr. backup to McGahee; 1200 yds for Titans)
Ernest Byner (Split Carries with Kevin Mack in CLE; 1200 yds for Wash)
John Riggins (Split Carries with Emerson Boozer NYJ; 24 TDs with Wash)
That’s not off the top of the dome - but I think you’re right. It’s rare to find a quality backup that wrecks shop in a new place. Teams tend to keep quality backups until they’re no longer capable of doing the job. Also, given that there are so many high quality backs around the league, it’s easier for teams to simply draft a dominant guy rather than pick up someone else’s backups. The cases I’ve listed above are fairly unique.
Henry was a demotion. Riggins used too many drugs and underperformed as a Jet. Byner played with a true equal in Mack. Allen lost his job due to politics with Al Davis and the emergence of Bo Jackson. James Brooks was always very good, but Chuck Muncie was THE SHIT. Arguably, only Holmes and Taylor off of this list were “true backups” in the mold of a Michael Turner.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Hot damn!! I agree 100% with DavidMac. That was a great post.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I think Larry Johnson is a elite RB in the league, he was backup to Priest Holmes. Bo Jackson was 2nd string, behind Marcus Allen. Marion Barber 2nd behind Julius Jones. Justin Fargas behind Lamont Jordan, Lamont Jordan behind Curtis Martin. Stephen Jackson behind Marshall Faulk, Rudi Johnson behind Corey Dillon, and there are some others.
Great to me means atleast 2 seasons of excellence, which is hard in the NFL.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:49 pm
By tear it up I mean go in and put up starter numbers for more than a season, I don’t disagree w/the list at all. You can add Willie Parker. Did M. Allen back up Kenny King?
Brooks was underrated in Cincy, Holmes was a steal for the Chiefs (I remember he wouldn’t come to the Eagles as a backup Duce Staley was the starter). Mack and Byner were the first two backs to rush for 1,000 yards in the same backfield.
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:57 pm
You started off and finished well Lamont Jordan never rushed for 500 yds as a Jet and had 1 good season in Oakland. I can’t ignore Barber’s TD total over the past two seasons but we’ll see this season if he’s starter material since he’s the feature back now. Fargas showed some flashes but he’ll be backing up McFadden. As for the rest of the list, not bad.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:18 pm
re Woodson Mizzo: there were also concerns he was having trouble picking up martz’s offense at the senior bowl, and also that he had a slow release and small hands.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
@TBR:
I don’t think you will see McFadden that much this season. They are paying too much money to Fargas to have him ride the pine. Lamont also is getting paid too much to just sit. My guess is you wont see much of McFadden until they trade Jordan away.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Did they re-up on Vargas? There was talk this week of releasing Jordan but the Raiders don’t want the Chiefs or Broncos to grab him.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:34 pm
Yeah Fargas got a 14 million dollar contract and 6 million guaranteed in February. Lamont got that 27 mil 5 year deal last year, so they are stacked at RB. Not to mention they have Micheal Bush on the squad too.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Is he the back from Louisville that broke his leg the year he turned pro?
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Finding guys who went from Back Up to Star with the same team is easy. The list of names I posted were, in line with TBR’s first statement AND the condition of Michael Turner, of players who began as Back Ups with one team and had excellent or even solid seasons with OTHER teams.
I didn’t do an exhaustive search, but I believe my list would be far shorter than the one which David referenced above.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Yes, Bush went to Louisville.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Glad to see Fargas get his pay day. He’s had an interesting career. He started out at Michigan and was caught in a log jam in the backfield. He transferred to USC and had some solid success there. He’s been like a diamond in the rough for years. He’s a good all-around football player.
And, he’s the son of Antonio Fargas, aka Huggy Bear.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Temple- I was refering to this post, which was made after I said I don’t think it is neccessary to include going into free agency.
# thebrotherreport Says:
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:26 pm
The free agent process doesn’t matter? How so? What backups became great, and what do you define as great.
————
TBR: Yeah, Bush broke his leg the first game of his senior season.
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:59 pm
DMac,
I understand your point about the O-Line, but as I said, the Falcons lost too much in the offseason on defense:
1. DT - Rod Coleman is gone
2. OLB - DeMerrio WIlliams
3. MLB - Brookings is still there but he’s not the same player and is also playing out of postion
4. CB - D-Hall is now in Oakland
5. FS - Chris Crocker is gone and Jimmy Williams hasn’t proved he can play the position
6. SS - Lawyer Milloy is not the same guy and will probably retire in a few years
As i said, we’ve needed an O-Line for over a decade but if you can’t stop anyone, why even take the field? I agree w/ CoCo…..i’d much rather focus on and build a great defense at this point. That is not to say that the O-Line is not important b/c it is.
Michael Turner has proved he is a quality “back-up”, not a starter. IF/WHEN he goes through a full-season as a starter and break the 1,000 yard barrier with at least 7 TDs, THEN he’ll have proven himself. Up until this point, the only thing he HAS proven is that he is a great “BACK-UP”.
Dude, there are dependability issues w/ Norwood because he is not a “run-thru-the-tackles” back, which is why WHEN they use him, it’s either to the outside or on screen passes. The issue is is not that they never use him….the problem is they don’t know HOW to use him. I think that’s probably what you’re saying as well.
During his two seasons of play, i’ve seen Norwood get the ball and is pretty much an arm tackle away from taking it to the house. The problem is he doesn’t have the lower body strength to withstand hit after hit, which is why he relies mostly on his speed. That’s why they went out and got Micheal Turner.
As for McFadden, I acknowleged that they don’t REALLY need him, but i think if they want to put people back in the dome, they’re going to need another big name to do it and McFadden would’ve been that guy i think.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I understand what you are saying about ATL’s D. But I believe a solid football team is created with the lines. Now ATL lost a lot of LBs and DBs, but their line for the most part is in tact. They’re O-line is nothing, there is absolutely nothing in their O-Line to build off of , and with this draft they had more than 1 O-lineman you could have built off of and they missed the boat. Jaime Dukes said it best, why buy fine China if you don’t have anything to protect it.
Michael Turner is a quality RB, I don’t buy into the backup/starter argument. If you can run on 3rd downs you can run on 1st and 2nds. To split the load they have a nice change of pace back in Norwood. Like I said we are just going to have to disagree on this point about Norwood and his ability to break tackles.
May 2nd, 2008 at 5:18 pm
DMac,
The defensive line aint in tact like you might think. Remember, the defense lost Grady Jackson AND Rod Coleman. Grady was the run stuffer and Coleman put pressure up the middle. They had a promising replacement for Grady (Tommy Jackson), but unless i’m mistaken, i don’t think they kept him around. John Abraham had a solid year last season but can he have another injury-free year (for the most part)? And Jamaal Anderson didn’t have a sack (if i’m not mistaken), so there’s reason for concern on “D”.
Lastly, regarding Turner, i believe that he is a quality RB but i would rather see it for 16 games, which would remove all doubt. And you may be right — he may have a great career here. But we’ll just have to wait it out and see what happens.
May 2nd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I could almost buy your legend refrence to Vick, however the guy only went to 2 NFC title game and no farther. Never led the Falcons to back to back winning seasons. Now if that is what legendary QB’s are to the Falcons then you are correct. I do think Ryan will get a fair shot. But will he be a great Qb who knows. Even with what the Giants did with their defense and winning the Super Bowl, when they had the #4 pick in 2004 they drafted Rivers then traded him for Manning. So building up the offensive and defensive lines is way more easier than finding a potential franchise QB.
May 2nd, 2008 at 9:23 pm
I know the Atlanta fans want Mike back. He’s the only qb in his era that has been able to do so much with so little. A young qb will have a terrible time in Atlanta. They just don’t have enough talent to help him out.
May 4th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
Most definitely… that’s why its going to be harder than ever for DJ to get the gig… Personally I think that would be the best bet for them… when he gets backs at 100% to give him a shot at it… The georgia fans love him, he is the hometown boy… PR wise he has the squeaky clean image that can get fans back into the Falcons mix, white or black. I think trying to change the falcons demo is a huge mistake… I mean dont african americans make up the majority of the atlanta population… if they alienate them… who will comes to the games?
May 4th, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Could someone please tell me what a “fair shot” is?
May 4th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Eb,
There will be the same roughly 30,000 folks or their heirs sitting in the Georgia Dome that transferred over from Fulton County Stadium (the original home of the Falcons). Tis a shame that the Dome actually seats 70,000 though.
May 4th, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Media term sista. So many negative connotations involved in such a term huh?
May 4th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Yes, and in this case, the negative connotations are on the people of metro Atlanta. Basically, the media will call it “not giving Ryan a fair shot”, when every home game is blacked out by Fox due to NFL rules. The media will call it “not giving Ryan a fair shot” when he simply doesn’t resonate into every teen running out and buying up his jersey and looping Lenox mall three times at his first autograph signing.
My point is, the “not giving him a fair shot” is really about something other than the football field here. Coco is correct that African American Falcons fans will root for Ryan just as they would Mike Vick…..the problem is there were far more African American Vick fans than Falcons fans to start with - and I think there is some confusion that they’re the same - nope, they ain’t…..and no amount of the media being mad that this is so, will make it NOT so. If the “fair shot” is, will Ryan get the same amount of love that Mike Vick got from African American season ticket holders before he took his first snap right up until his last? Then, please…hell naw…67% of the African American season ticket holders didn’t renew their tickets…that answers for itself. They weren’t really Falcons fans, so they aren’t obligated to give “fair shots”.
May 4th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Great points sista Miranda.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:04 am
“67% of the African American season ticket holders didn’t renew their tickets…that answers for itself. They weren’t really Falcons fans, so they aren’t obligated to give “fair shots”.”
And this is precisely why Atlanta is known to have the absolute WORST fans in all of sports. Falcons, Braves, Hawks — I’m surprised none of those teams have packed up and left the city.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Friedman when are you going to write something instead of coming here consistently to disrupt threads?
May 5th, 2008 at 12:11 am
How is that indicative of “worst fans”? I just explained who they were “fans” of….its not a matter of Atlanta having the “worst fans”, its a matter of just not having MANY fans. No one is obligated to be a fan of a team by virtue of geography.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:21 am
True fans root for TEAMS, not players — and you certainly don’t root for players simply based on race.
You think Packers fans — the best in the entire league — are going to stop showing up for games and stop rooting for their team because their hero Favre retired? Nope. Every game will still be sold out regardless.
If you are rooting for a team because you happen to like a certain player, then you are certainly not a fan. Ergo, based on the scenario you described, Atlanta has terrible (and not that many, apparently) fans.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:58 am
I think the Packers fans have nothing else to do on a Sunday afternoon other than root for the Packers…its not like that in Atlanta….like I said, Falcons fans will still be rooting for the Falcons on Sundays…that hasn’t changed. You’re obvioulsy misled by the actual number of Falcons fans. Its a good 30,000 -and that hasn’t changed.
May 5th, 2008 at 12:59 am
Aint a damn thing to do in Green Bay besides root for the Packers! LOL
It is very possible to root for a player but not root for the team. Especially if you play fantasy sports! (I tried it last season and it ruined football for me so never again) anyway… Manny Ramirez is one of my favorite players, but as a Yankee fan I damn sure don’t root for the Sox. I do want Manny to do well, just not against us.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:04 am
CoCo,
Talk about bad mojo…..how bout Michael Boley got arrested a little while ago…..assault charges.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:05 am
No way!!! That’s not a good look at all Miranda. Good thing I’m not a Falcons fan!
May 5th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Yep…..per the AJC he was booked for battery, happened at his home - they already have the mugshot up!…..somebody better go check on King Arthur.
May 5th, 2008 at 1:37 am
True fans root for teams? So the players don’t drive the sport? Really? The actual team logos do?
Who the heck made you the authority to write a statement so absolute?
What about the fans in Philly who left when Iverson, Barkley or Erving left? Or the fans in Boston when their original big three retired? Sacramento and Webber? Miami and Marino?
Do you want me to go on because I can?
Dude brought up one example of die hard fans in a state where every store says milk, eggs, beer cheese to make a point?