Comments on: Good, But Not Good Enough http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/ Bangin’ and Scorin’ Every Trip Down the Floor Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:56:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: HarveyDent http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11098 HarveyDent Sat, 10 May 2008 19:31:27 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11098 DP, I remember that season especially the playoffs because the Dream led Houston to a repeat with a low seed and the way he raised his team's level of play was just astounding. I've never seen a championship run like that before or sense with probably the exception of this past season NY Giants as much as it pains me to say as an Eagles fan. The way he dream shook the Admiral and Shaq surprised the hell out of me that those guys even managed to win championships afterwards because he took them to school that season. I have too many athletes to name who were jobbed when he came to being their respective sports MVP's but I'll throw out Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb because the success they had in their glory days, I won't say primes because they haven't and probably won't reach them, cost them numbers except the important ones, wins. Two guys who led moribund franchises to consistent success with no real supporting casts always get my vote. DP, I remember that season especially the playoffs because the Dream led Houston to a repeat with a low seed and the way he raised his team’s level of play was just astounding. I’ve never seen a championship run like that before or sense with probably the exception of this past season NY Giants as much as it pains me to say as an Eagles fan. The way he dream shook the Admiral and Shaq surprised the hell out of me that those guys even managed to win championships afterwards because he took them to school that season.

I have too many athletes to name who were jobbed when he came to being their respective sports MVP’s but I’ll throw out Michael Vick and Donovan McNabb because the success they had in their glory days, I won’t say primes because they haven’t and probably won’t reach them, cost them numbers except the important ones, wins. Two guys who led moribund franchises to consistent success with no real supporting casts always get my vote.

]]> By: Drexel Perry http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11050 Drexel Perry Sat, 10 May 2008 02:15:31 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11050 Hakeem Olajuwon should have won the NBA MVP award over David Robinson during the 1994-1995 season. Olajuwon averaged a career-high 27.8 points per game that year, but since the Spurs finished 1st in the west that season (The Rockets finished 6th), Robinson received the award. Olajuwon used this as motivation as he killed Robinson in the Rockets 4-2 series victory over the Spurs in the West finals that year. Olajuwon abused Robinson during that series. Hakeem Olajuwon should have won the NBA MVP award over David Robinson during the 1994-1995 season.

Olajuwon averaged a career-high 27.8 points per game that year, but since the Spurs finished 1st in the west that season (The Rockets finished 6th), Robinson received the award.

Olajuwon used this as motivation as he killed Robinson in the Rockets 4-2 series victory over the Spurs in the West finals that year. Olajuwon abused Robinson during that series.

]]> By: Mizzo http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11043 Mizzo Sat, 10 May 2008 00:22:23 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11043 Max Air...explain that shit. Don't just post a link. Ya better than that. It's not like you're not from 'round here. Max Air…explain that shit. Don’t just post a link. Ya better than that. It’s not like you’re not from ’round here.

]]> By: Myles Brown http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11041 Myles Brown Fri, 09 May 2008 23:22:10 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11041 My two cents.... http://slamonline.com/online/2008/05/always-a-bridesmaid-never-an-mvp/#comments My two cents….

http://slamonline.com/online/2008/05/always-a-bridesmaid-never-an-mvp/#comments

]]> By: youngvito http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11038 youngvito Fri, 09 May 2008 22:58:05 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11038 Isiah....while everyone was clamoring for CP3 to win this year at age 23, Zeke's numbers were 21.2 pts NBA-record 13.9 assists and 2.3 steals...at age 23. Took the World Champion Celtics to six games in the semis, and here's the kicker. Got a total of three MVP votes in the Pistons championship years when he averaged 18 and 9 Isiah….while everyone was clamoring for CP3 to win this year at age 23, Zeke’s numbers were 21.2 pts NBA-record 13.9 assists and 2.3 steals…at age 23. Took the World Champion Celtics to six games in the semis, and here’s the kicker. Got a total of three MVP votes in the Pistons championship years when he averaged 18 and 9

]]> By: MODI http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11031 MODI Fri, 09 May 2008 22:00:17 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11031 T3, it was actually two separate questions because he said "Sport or season". I chose season and you chose sport. Oh, the ambiguity... As for a career NBA? I agree that the two biggest omissions are Jerry West and Isiah. Both were victims of their era, Wilt and Russell had the '60s locked up with an Oscar cameo. Meanwhile Bird, Magic, & MJ trumped isiah. Elgin? I have never seen him or West play besides some old grainy tape, but I hold Elgin's career 43% shooting % against him... whereas the other two greatest non-centers of the 60's shot .485 (Oscar) and .474 (West). While Elgin may have been Pearl's, Dr. J's, and MJ's artistic predecessor, he may have also been a bit of a chucker... T3, it was actually two separate questions because he said “Sport or season”. I chose season and you chose sport. Oh, the ambiguity…

As for a career NBA? I agree that the two biggest omissions are Jerry West and Isiah. Both were victims of their era, Wilt and Russell had the ’60s locked up with an Oscar cameo. Meanwhile Bird, Magic, & MJ trumped isiah.

Elgin? I have never seen him or West play besides some old grainy tape, but I hold Elgin’s career 43% shooting % against him… whereas the other two greatest non-centers of the 60’s shot .485 (Oscar) and .474 (West). While Elgin may have been Pearl’s, Dr. J’s, and MJ’s artistic predecessor, he may have also been a bit of a chucker…

]]> By: thebrotherreport http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11029 thebrotherreport Fri, 09 May 2008 20:48:06 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11029 With the career numbers that he postedI'm shocked that Roberto Clemente won the NL MVP only once. But he also played in an era of great pitchers and hitters. With the career numbers that he postedI’m shocked that Roberto Clemente won the NL MVP only once. But he also played in an era of great pitchers and hitters.

]]> By: Temple3 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11028 Temple3 Fri, 09 May 2008 20:35:32 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11028 In basketball, it's Elgin Baylor. I don't know that this award has always been exclusively for regular season performance, but Baylor's early career numbers were astounding. 1958-59: ROY - 24.9 pts. 15.0 rebs. 1959-60: 29.6, 16.4 1960-61: 34.8, 19.8, 5.1 assists 1961-62: 38.3, 18.6, 4.6 1962-63: 34.0, 14.3, 4.8 1963-64: 25.4, 12.0, 4.4 and it goes on and on. Jerry West had crazy numbers and never won one either. Isiah Thomas is one of the greatest players to never win the award. I would probably exclude the NFL from this category since so many players have no shot at winning the award. In baseball, I can't help thinking about Duke Snider - not for a specific season, but overall. In hockey, I'd say Patrick Roy. Goalies have a special trophy and don't often win the Hart - but he was excellent even though he was at his best in the playoffs. Also, there were tons of great players who emerged during Gretzky's prime who had no chance of winning. Those players include Mike Bossy, Brian Trottier, Paul Coffey and others. Messier couldn't win one until he and Gretzky were on different teams. By the way - I hope I'm answering the right question...not which great player was robbed - but which great player never won. Ted Williams won in '46 and '49. In basketball, it’s Elgin Baylor. I don’t know that this award has always been exclusively for regular season performance, but Baylor’s early career numbers were astounding.

1958-59: ROY - 24.9 pts. 15.0 rebs.
1959-60: 29.6, 16.4
1960-61: 34.8, 19.8, 5.1 assists
1961-62: 38.3, 18.6, 4.6
1962-63: 34.0, 14.3, 4.8
1963-64: 25.4, 12.0, 4.4
and it goes on and on.

Jerry West had crazy numbers and never won one either.

Isiah Thomas is one of the greatest players to never win the award.

I would probably exclude the NFL from this category since so many players have no shot at winning the award.

In baseball, I can’t help thinking about Duke Snider - not for a specific season, but overall.

In hockey, I’d say Patrick Roy. Goalies have a special trophy and don’t often win the Hart - but he was excellent even though he was at his best in the playoffs. Also, there were tons of great players who emerged during Gretzky’s prime who had no chance of winning. Those players include Mike Bossy, Brian Trottier, Paul Coffey and others. Messier couldn’t win one until he and Gretzky were on different teams.

By the way - I hope I’m answering the right question…not which great player was robbed - but which great player never won. Ted Williams won in ‘46 and ‘49.

]]> By: DavidMac http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11026 DavidMac Fri, 09 May 2008 19:56:51 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11026 TBR is right, Randy Moss in the NFL last year. TBR is right, Randy Moss in the NFL last year.

]]> By: thebrotherreport http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11025 thebrotherreport Fri, 09 May 2008 19:34:26 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11025 2008: Randy Moss for the same reason they jobbed Ted Williams. 2008: Randy Moss for the same reason they jobbed Ted Williams.

]]> By: MODI http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11024 MODI Fri, 09 May 2008 19:20:39 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11024 Belle is right there, and if you remember SI did a cover story sell job for Vaughn the week before. Pendleton over Bonds is also egregious. I would have to go with Ted Williams (.406) over Joe D. in 1941. I mean 4-0 freakin' 6. Joe D got too much credit for the 56 game hitting streak even if he didn't top .406 during the streak! I guess the sequence of hits you get is more important than how many hits. Also, the press HATED Williams because he didn't kiss their ass... Belle is right there, and if you remember SI did a cover story sell job for Vaughn the week before. Pendleton over Bonds is also egregious.

I would have to go with Ted Williams (.406) over Joe D. in 1941. I mean 4-0 freakin’ 6. Joe D got too much credit for the 56 game hitting streak even if he didn’t top .406 during the streak! I guess the sequence of hits you get is more important than how many hits. Also, the press HATED Williams because he didn’t kiss their ass…

]]> By: Mizzo http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11023 Mizzo Fri, 09 May 2008 19:11:57 +0000 http://thestartingfive.net/2008/05/09/good-but-not-good-enough/#comment-11023 Albert Belle in 1995 with coincidentally, Cleveland. 2nd place in voting behind Mo Vaughn. .317, 50 homers, 50 doubles (first ever with 50,50), .690 slg, 126 rbi, 121 runs in 143 games. Vaughn: .300, 39 homers, 28 doubles, .575 slg, 126 rbi, 98 runs in 140 games. Indians lost to the Marlins in the World Series that year. Disgusting. Albert Belle in 1995 with coincidentally, Cleveland.

2nd place in voting behind Mo Vaughn. .317, 50 homers, 50 doubles (first ever with 50,50), .690 slg, 126 rbi, 121 runs in 143 games.

Vaughn: .300, 39 homers, 28 doubles, .575 slg, 126 rbi, 98 runs in 140 games.

Indians lost to the Marlins in the World Series that year.

Disgusting.

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