California Dreaming
It never rains in Southern California, however when it does…it pours.
There are two sides to every story. With that said, ESPN broke a story of corruption on Sunday morning, via the half-hour show Outside the Lines. The focus is on OJ Mayo, the celebrated hoops hero from West Virginia. In a nutshell, he allegedly accepted money, perks, and gifts since his high school days, in agreement to sign with a well known sports agency. The way crime works, is that the criminal seeks something or someone to exert their expertise upon, essentially preying on others. If what ESPN reported is true, then it is important that we remember how student athletes are just as much “targets” as their professional counterparts.
Will OJ join the ranks of the NBA with pulp, and some extra baggage? The main issue that could be dealt with, to curtail these types of accusations would be to flirt with the idea of paying student athletes. I know first hand that a full athletic scholarship doesn’t equal a pinch of the Booster, TV, Bowl, and Championship revenue made by colleges and universities. If student athletes were paid, then people like Papa G (Sam Gilbert), would be rendered powerless, by the sometimes questionable system that is the NCAA. This ordeal may loom like an elephant in the USC trophy case, and only time will tell the other side of this story. And last but not least…any team that decides to hold the Mayo on draft night, will miss out on a very special person. Peace, AXG
May 11th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
AXG,
You know Im for paying these kids. The ncaa is legalized slavery as far as im concerned. The schools make ridiculous amounts of money off these kids that are just an injury away from losing out on their much deserved pay day. While coaches collect million dollar salaries. It’s all BS if you ask me. Just more of the great divide.
May 11th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
I hear you Michelle. First they [colleges and universities] love you, then they hate you, and sometimes they love you again.
May 11th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
So lets see they tried to make him out to be a thug his last few years in highschool and his first year in College……..but he foiled their plans because he didn’t get in trouble.
Next they tried to say that he was a selfish player. But he foiled that because he was far from a selfish player and his teamates and coaches agreed.
So now they get him on the….”he took some money tip”. So I guess to the media he is this new generations version of the fab five minus 4 players. SO he is cocky, a thug and took money while in college.
Hey got to make a new bad guy (Vick is in jail, Zeke lost his job, Pacman can’t play yet, Chris Henry doesn’t have a team, Carmello gets in trouble but always apologies) so what does the media do????
Make a new villian.
May 11th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
This is nothing more then feeding the monster while at the same time showing OJ who is the boss.
May 11th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
I shrug any time a collegiate athlete is accused of taking funds and the usual suspects come raining down, breathing hellfire on the athlete and his academic institution.
I love college basketball and college football, but the NBA needs to drop its age requirement, and if the NFL won’t, at least consider forming its own minor league system. The NCAA is a poor substitute for a farm system, the reason talented athletes deal with it is because there’s no other choice.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:07 pm
Has it ever occurred to you race-baiting morons that these “exploited” students are actually getting a free college education in exchange for their athletic commitments? That amounts to over $150k over 4 years at many schools. This is hardly a system of “slavery.” Any college athlete has the option of not going to college at all. If an athlete happens to get injured at college, thence depriving them of their big NBA, NBA, or MLB payday, then too bad. That’s life. Life has risks. If someone is so damned concerned about these issues, then there’s a simple prescription: DON’T GO TO COLLEGE!
May 11th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
Shut up. We’re past the players who do right or the colleges that do right. This is a different context isn’t it?
Get off your midget high horse with your feet not touching the ground and really see what’s going on instead of loving the system over and over with no grease.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:20 pm
I am the product of athletics at a major university with a degree, nevertheless the school always wins no matter if the student athlete “makes it” or not. So I am in favor of the student athlete getting paid to prevent what has happened to the University of Michigan, and what is about to happen to Indiana University and countless numbers of other colleges, coaches, and most importantly the players.
This is a problem for all races, colors, and creeds.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Two other issues you fools are seemingly unaware of are:
(1) How to distinguish what one high school recruit should get paid over another.
(2) The tremendously corrosive trickle down effect that paying college athletes will have at lower levels in the chain. The predators are already combing the junior high yards in their hunt for new talent. The payoffs and bribes and kickbacks will only get worse at these levels once college athletes are paid.
It is noticeable, Mizzo, that you put nothing on the table with your hostile and useless “shut up” type of attitude. You completely fail to address my main point: college athletes DO get quite a bit out of a free education. For the morons who are just using “the system” to further their professional sports careers, then college is providing them YET ANOTHER benefit in terms of big time exposure to the pro ranks.
It’s clear that most of you here approach this issue from one of hyperkinetic racial sensitivity and a burning desire to turn this into an issue of racism, despite the fact that white, asian, and latino athletes equally “suffer” (according to your twisted point of view). Seriously, the way you regular posters march in lockstep to these issues, you’re no better than Fox News republicans, so far as your uniformity of thought is concerned. You’re like a very small cult who chants the same mantra over and over and over again.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Salongo,
You bring up a very valid point with the trickle down theory. Never thought of that. As for student athletes using the college for their gain, it happens all the time, especially in basketball.
Thank you for bringing another light to this article. Like it says, there are two sides to every story.
May 11th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
When you come to our site and call folks names who are not addressing you personally ya damn right I’m gonna snap. Are you the institution we criticize? Yes college athletes get something out of their education but colleges benefit greatly or we would have a playoff system in football.
No cult here. Just folks sick and tired of midget voices like yourself who can’t handle the truth.
You are on personal defense why again?
Like I said before, the context was not the athletes who get the most out of their education because they aren’t going to the pros. We are speaking of the kids who drive the program yet can’t even work to take their girls/guys on a decent date.
That’s foul and those aforementioned should be rewarded.
AXG he’s not speaking objectively or he would have come here with a more civil tone.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:04 am
I think college athletes should get paid as well. It will never happen, but from the numerous college athletes I have known and talked to, they go through a lot for a school that can throw them to the side so easily.
Most people say a college education is getting paid. Ok, that’s valid, but not 100% at least for all players. Believe me there are MANY players who try to work a real job in order to cover expenses, but athletics and school work take up so more of their time they can’t cover just about anything. I’ve seen some athletes working minimal hours at two jobs and not get anywhere.
And belive, more than the schools get rich off of these students. How much money do tv networks make while showing these games? How about advertisers? What about sports stores selling the jerseies (sp?) these athletes mad famous? How about sports media who write and talk about these schools? Or the people who make famous video games modelling these players?
Hell….how much money did OJ’s high school make off of him as he sold out game after game?
I could go on and on but many people become rich off of these players who may never see a true dime in the long run. Yeah other students get full ride scholarships, but they don’t put their mind and body through as much carnage as some of these players do year after year.
Its a hot debate, but I would vote for them to get paid. As long as it is resonable. School’s provide other students a chance to work for the institution, have a scholarship and still make money. While graduate to a lucrative field. I did it all four years. But athletes are not given that same chance.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:20 am
C I agree with everything you say. It should be obvious to folks like Salongo, but he seems like one who falls lock and step with anything corporate.
Another thing. Read The Starting Five Is, a feature or two… as well as the interviews before you make a blanket statement on our agenda.
It ain’t about Black or White..it’s more about what is right.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:27 am
The only answer that will probably satisfy almost all opinions, and an option that I support, is a legitimate NFL and NBA minor league system. However, to call the current college athletes “exploited” is absurd. College athletics is providing them with effectively free exposure to professional organizations, and ultimately paving their road to a millionaire’s mansion on the hill.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:33 am
While benefiting ten fold from the business transaction.
May 12th, 2008 at 12:58 am
“However, to call the current college athletes “exploited” is absurd. College athletics is providing them with effectively free exposure to professional organizations, and ultimately paving their road to a millionaire’s mansion on the hill.”
I don’t agree with this statement. Before I got to college I would have agreed, but when I saw how a lot of athletes are living, my mindset changed. Yeah you do have those that come to school and take advantage of the system. But they’re MANY more who are taken advantage of and not given the proper opportunities they should recieve. And when all is said and done, the school has taken more from the students, than they will ever recieve in the long run.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:34 am
I agree Mizzo and CEvidence during my college days I have seen dudes who wanted to take certain majors and practicaly forced by the coach to take an easier major.
I have seen dudes get hurt and have their scholarship taken away from them. I have seen dudes who had reading ad writing disabilities get passed on and get free grades. All because they were great players.
All of this is a diservice to the players. D@MN if they get a so called free scholarship. Not to mention the millons of dollars the school, conference and NCAA make off them. Let alone the money that the networks make.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:51 am
Oh boo hoo hoo. These poor exploited star athletes on campus. Whatever should we do to help them? Here’s an idea. If some schmoe is incapable of handling his studies, his athletics, and a menial campus job, then right out of high school he should work for 1 year, live at home, and save enough money for 1 year’s worth of late night burgers at the local diner. What, you think these guys should actually have to work for their dreams like the rest of us? Boo fucking hoo.
And guess what else. If the poor, embattled star athlete wants to study physics as an undergrad, and just can’t seem to find the time to keep up with the rest of the braniacs, then that athlete should quit sports altogether and pursue physics. PLENTY of regular schmoes have to make exactly this sort of comprise as they balance college and money issues.
Seriously, tackle the problems that ordinary people have to deal with. OJ the star, pampered athlete doesn’t need your help. The guy is going to make millions in the NBA no matter how much he cheated the existing NCAA system.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:01 am
Salongo,
You also seem to forget their are two standards in our society. One that whites in many cases live by and then there is the rest of us. White boys nare getting paid and taken advatages of perks problem is no one is calling them out or complaining. I watched a documentary about 5 years ago about this very subject and there were many white former football players laughing about all the things they recieved during their college days so take your bs out of here. Until asses like you admit that people of color are treated differently in this country we will always have this argument. The NCAA has been corrupt allowing athletes to take bs classes just so they can stay on the field and make the colleges all kinds of money. Dexter Manley couldn’t even read so how the hell could he be academically eligible? The school didnt care about him at all. So you dumb ass are the fool. Get real.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:01 am
“And when all is said and done, the school has taken more from the students, than they will ever recieve in the long run.”
—————————————————————-
Rubbish. How about the school that winds up paying the star hoopshead and doesn’t even sniff the sweet 16? You think Arizona should have paid Jerryd Bayless for the luxury of his one-and-done leadership? Should said athlete repay the university for their abysmal performance? Should the university have the opportunity to kick that star athlete’s ass right out of school for failing to live up to his high school hype? You want to pay these jugheads like professionals, then they deserve the added pressure of having to perform and show results like the professionals. Each university should have the right to trade these bums to other schools if they so choose.
Bottom line is that these athletes get a hell of an opportunity at these colleges. Forget the education part (hilarious that this is what it’s come down to). These star athletes get to parade and strut for the NBA and NFL. Think they advertise their talents farting around in a development league in Turkey or Lithuania? All that’s happening now in college basketball is that these megastars have to delay their big payday for ONE SINGLE LOUSY year. You want to spoil them even further by making colleges pay them for that one year of service? Yeah, good ol’ OJ Mayo and Jerryd Bayless really did wonders for their respective programs. The universities put up the time, effort, and money to develop these facilities, and they deserve some return on their investment.
You guys only speak of this exploitation because you’re hellbent on finding an analogy between the old time slave plantation and modern NCAA athletics, despite the fact that black athletes aren’t the only race subjected to the system. You should just admit this instead of pretending that you actually give a damn about the plight of these individuals.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:05 am
Salongo,
Your are the short nerd that was the last guy picked in gym class aren’t you? It’s ok now we understand. Your jealousy is very obvious. I bet you also wear a toupee. I feel your pain geek.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Salongo. Thanks for tipping your hand. How the hell do you get through the spam filter?
B Peace.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:22 am
Awww…what’s the matter michelle? Some of your racist jive gets challenged and you spurt and sputter and can’t do anything but spit out some irrelevant ad hominem attacks? Lame. You’ve shown your true colors. You’re intellectually incapable of legitimate debate. All you were able to put on the table so far is some bogus reference to a documentary that, supposedly, suggested that white athletes uniformly get away with cheating the NCAA system, and only black athletes get persecuted and investigated. Naturally, you cite no hard evidence, no studies whatsoever (as usual). You should blow smoke like a busted steam engine, totally without authority or credibility. And while we’re on this subject of NCAA investigations, take a look at the coaches that the NCAA has taken down over the years. Jerry Tarkanian (whitey), Kelvin Sampson (Indian), Dave Bliss (whitey)…these are just a few examples off the top of my head of non-black coaches that the NCAA has justifiably nailed. In other words, Michelle, you and your racial history are completely full of shit. Take all your phony righteous racist crap and shove it straight up yer ass! Yeah!
May 12th, 2008 at 3:22 am
LOL Michelle
May 12th, 2008 at 3:24 am
And what exactly is your “spam filter?” Something that filters out all dissent from the party line? Yup, that’s a really clean intellectual environment you’re runnin’ there Mizzo. Mugabe would be right proud.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Read the rules of discourse. I have no problem with dissent. Even along racial lines, but when you resort to name calling that kills the conversation.
Peace.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:27 am
LOL. Good one Salongo. Michelle does get out of line at times and deserves a good smack down.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:29 am
Salongo you are a ignorant fool didn’t I just say that the coaches many ties won’t let player take certain majors?
This is done not because they feel he player can’t handle it. It is done because the so called student athlete would have to spend more time on that major there by spending less time to focus on the sport. This is about saving the coaches @ss and job and helping the team win.
Seems as though you are a jealous fool. Do youcomplain about student getting academic scholarships??? Many of the scholarships that students get a lumps of money that sometimes cover all their books or tuition and ofen times they have money left over. I knew of a few students at my college who would gt scholarships and have money left over to pocket.
Sometimes it would be a couple thousands. So should they give that money back. Since its like they were getting paid.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:30 am
Mizzo — your hypocrisy is outlandishly obvious. You don’t hold your good buddy michelle to the same rules of decorum that you pretend to hold sacred. Hypocrisy ain’t a good character trait buddy, especially not when you parade it for everyone to see.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Salongo seriously man…you need to just stop. Really.
First, I never said to pay the athletes like professionals. That’s flat out stupid and I for one am not an idiot. MANY schools give their players different forms of stipends, but just like regular students who work on campus. However, those stipends are RARELY enough to cover basic living expenses: i.e. gas, clothes, food, etc. If these schools are making millions…MILLIONS to pay every single coach the way they are, something can be done to help the athletes out that are struggling as well.
Second, there is money available for some hard case student-athletes to apply for. But that money is very sparse, AND the applications are often a joke. I’ve done research on them and they really are a joke, look them up. Again, funds that can be seperated from the millions that are brought in from these very same student-athletes.
Third, these students all ready have the pressure to perform like professionals WITHOUT the money. You don’t think Rose was under pressure to perform this year? Hell…most of them are all ready bad mouthed by the media enough that you would think they are professional athletes, not 18-21 year old children or young adults. Fans of these teams act like the players owe them something, just like if they were professional athletes. So like I said, they all ready face that pressure to perform at a high level.
Fourth, ANYONE who recieves a scholarship to a major school has a “hell of an opportunity.” Whether you are a regular student or not. The simple fact is you got there the same exact way. HARD WORK. The same way a good student worked hard to get a full ride, an athlete worked hard to earn their scholarships. However it is MUCH more easier for a student athlete to lose their scholarship than it is for that same regular student. Much more easier.
A lot of these athletes are exploited from the school flat out. For example, the Clemson player who was taking care of his little brother by himself. When it was hot in the media, the school put him to the forefront for all this great publicity. I’m willing to bet that no only did he get legal donations to help him raise his brother, but the school was financially rewarded as well. But once the story goes cold and he got hurt, what did they do. Revoked his scholarship just because he was hurt. Now how is it ok for them to exploit his story flat out, then get rid of him once they are done with it?
It happens man…flat out. Like I said, there are players who take advantage of the system. And I thought they were all the same way. Even when I had my opportunity to be a student-athlete. My eyes were not opened until I met other athletes that were struggling. Even one who QUIT the athletic program because he had to get a full time job in order to be able to support himself while in school.
Some solution needs to be reached but things are not equal.
May 12th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Salongo then why are you choosing to mimic Harvey Dent?
What did he do to you?
What does this site do to you?
What is your purpose?
Why are you so vile?
Who do you represent?
What are you?
May 12th, 2008 at 8:09 am
I’d like to make a few points….
1) America does not operate as a socialist system. College ballplayers are workers. Coaches are middle management. The universities are the corporate heads, and the head always does better than the feet. That’s capitalism, and capitalism was never meant to be fair; deal with it. Factory workers don’t take home the same check as the founder of the company. College ballplayers know the deal when they opt for college. Breaking the rules is breaking the rules. If they don’t want to live by those rules, they should head to Europe where any player can play, regardless of age, then come back to the NBA once they get drafted, and they will get drafted. Or…. they could strike. Have a sit-out. Have every black senior, who doesn’t have to worry about his scholarship getting revoked, refuse to play in a bowl game, or suit up for the first round of the NCAA tournament. Would it be a painful loss of a childhood dream? Sure, but getting what you want takes sacrifice. This site loves to hold up Ali, Smith, Carlos, et al as examples of how to protest. A sit-out by college seniors, in the most important games of the season, would be in keeping with the protests of those great athletes and civil rights champions. And, if the fact that the NBA has a silly age rule (and it is silly) and no real minor league system is what’s making this NCAA situation so ludicrous (and it is ludicrous), then why don’t Magic Johnson and a few of the other multi-millionaires who got fat off their talent start up a minor league? If they care about the players so much, why not put their money where their mouths are?
2) Paying college players is not the answer. Students who do a lot of the research for their professors get no money when the prof takes the student-generated research and turns it into a book or a lucrative speaking tour on the college lecture circuit. The students who did a lot of the leg-work are told that’s how the system works, and it IS how the system works. It’s called paying dues. The most a student will get is a mention on the acknowledgement page of the best-seller. Those students are not living in dorm rooms with flat-screen TVs, wearing clothes from Rodeo Drive, driving SUVs from the car lot of a former NFL star, or moving their parents into homes rented by scum the likes of Rodney Guillory. And you know what? Those students somehow make it though four years of school, and maybe two or three more years of grad school, without breaking rules because of ‘hardship.’ Cry me a river for OJ Mayo’s supposed ‘hardship.’ I spent four years in the Peace Corps in a sub-Saharan African sh*t-hole and watched dying kids — AIDS orphans, usually — get eaten alive by swarming insects. OJ Mayo living at USC without a cell phone or a flat-screen TV! Oh dear, the poor, poor child. Paying Mayo or any other college athlete would be to cater to the cries of hardship, false cries in a country where having only one parent and an SUV that’s over two years old and having to pay for your own cell phone service is considered lower class. Give me a break.
3) There has to be some substance to the argument concerning the way the media seems to focus its attention on the superstar black student-athlete. It is a fool’s errand for anyone to try to deny that some white Americans just hate to see young black kids succeed. Logically, it just does not follow that not a single white college QB or white major basketball star hasn’t been helped along the way by the same dingy elements who helped Mayo or Reggie Bush or whomever else we want to include in the discussion. From the dearth of coverage of cheating white superathletes, a reasonable person would conclude that either a) white athletes don’t cheat (impossible to believe), or b) the media sinks its teeth deeper into the story when it involves a black athlete (quite easily believed).
4) Can we stop watching high school games on ESPN? Can we stop checking out the websites of eighth-graders whose parents think are the next LeBron James or Tiger Woods? Can we stop talking about, blogging about, reporting on, or drooling over teenagers who have done nothing but win a few games in a corrupt and shameless nationwide system of traveling youth teams and ‘handlers’ who jockey players from one high school to another because the players are too immature to grow up and adjust to student life the way every other high school student has to do? The problem is not just with these pampered, spoiled, pathetic teenage athletes; the shame is also in the people who get some perverse pleasure from hyping these kids as if playing basketball or football was actually a relevant, important skill in life. When a kid who can dunk a basketball also finds a cure for cancer or builds a better mousetrap, then let him make a claim to greatness. It’s hardly ‘great’ to be able to run faster than everyone else.
May 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
You make solid points all around but to deny that players aren’t great because of all the hard work they’ve also put in to become the upper echelon athlete is ludicrous.
To compare athletes to anyone else is also incorrect in the context of this discussion. They do what they do and that’s all we can ask for. I think that’s where your third point comes in. There’s a lot of envy going on.
When Whites controlled the athletic landscape there wasn’t all this anger regarding money. When you watch a game do you watch an athlete simply because of the money he makes or because of his talent?
The protest you’ve alluded to is a great point. Will Black athletes and coaches follow through with such an ambition is the question. When I interviewed a string of Black college basketball coaches in 2006, I asked a couple of them what the hell is going on with college football? They all were just as confused as we all should be. The numbers of White coaches compared with those of Blacks is absurd.
It’s not getting better.
I have to disagree with your point about college athletes not getting paid and also your point about capitalism. It’s a cop out to just say the college landscape thrives on capitalism. Does that make it right? Should we just fold our arms and give up or speak out?
Again, there are more important things to discuss, but none of that is relevant to this discussion. That’s not diminishing your point about your Peace Corps experience. Props to you for that.
As far as athletes getting paid…seriously…who is generating more dollars than the athlete? Athletes sign a contract, why shouldn’t there be eventual negotiations to secure some of the burgeoning pot? A lot of these coaches wouldn’t have jobs if not for the world class athlete that happens upon their program every blue moon as well as the 5th year senior who never gets on the field.
I think there should be an incentive based system for every athlete in every division.
May 12th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
If these ballers were white would this even be an issue? Amateur sports is a big business and everyone is getting paid but these young, (primarily) African-American kids. The universities know what’s going on with this recruits and these top rated players are only going to NCAA for 1 year anyway.
They are going to take the perks and bounce from school before the allegations make the news. They do background checks and know more about these kids than anyone else.
The NCAA is a joke and they make MILLIONS off the back of these athletes. Trust me… I was one of them.
Strength!
May 12th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
I see no problem with OJ. he deserves to to able to make his money by any legal means neccessary.
May 12th, 2008 at 8:35 pm
Will the day ever come when Africans create their own league like the old ABA? Only this time fill the gap between high school and pros?
You’ll have the ballers getting paid to play in a league that respects them and treats them like MEN, this will take care of dictator Stern’s minimum age requirements, the young cats get prepared for the pros and get paid and the NCAA get their “student Athletes” and fodder for their plantation machine.
We have the economics and the brains in our community to do so, but do we have the WILL? This is a rhetorical question.
AHHH! But this is only a dream…I will wake up now!
May 12th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
There aren’t that many Africans in the NBA sankofa, especially those that play at a high level, ie Starters. Who would be in this league? Deng? Thats all I can think of.
I agree with the notion that there should be a league to compete against the NCAA that pays athletes. I think a league for b-ball and football aimed squarely at kids coming out of high school and paying them around 45K- 220K a year would kill the NCAA.
May 12th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Stern should have just utilized his D-league and the European league to enhance the age requirement… draft them out of high-school straight into the D-League and pay them and “call them up” when they are ready. I don’t know how many D-League teams there are, but if there is limited space have a lottery system or open try-outs and let them earn their way up to the big league… Also, I was a good college student, but I don’t know if I could have juggled credit hours along with a seemingly year round athletic schedule and then have to worry about having money in my pocket and having nice clothing and truly having a wonderful college experience..
May 12th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
DMac… it’s me Sankofa! You don’t know how I speak?
My African is your “black”, knee-grow or any other definition of who we are originally.
And we need to kill the NCAA or at least humble it. There is nothing big business overstand more than money leaving their bank accounts.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:03 am
Michelle
That’s not me taking shots at you but I do apologize because my screen name got jacked.
Me doth think Salongo doth protest too much. It’s amazing how certain sports stories bring these trolls out of the woodwork to these sites. Mizzo and the other writers have created a blog for a free exchange of ideas and not insults right off the bat. This is just a cyber community and many of us will never meet outside the Matrix but those of us who do post on here consistently have a modicum of respect for each other. If we get out of pocket sometimes it’s because we’ve been on here for months and ‘know’ each other enough to talk that way. You dont’ get any respect, Salongo, for slinging mud at us by trying to make your opinion more valid than ours. State your piece and have something more than insults to back it up. If you want to get personal take it over to DeadSpin or some other place because it doesn’t fly around here.
Getting to OJ Mayo. I’ve done a complete 180 to my thoughts about kids turning professional at an early age especially in the NBA and NFL because the NCAA and the colleges truly pimp these kids out for as much as they can get. For the scholarship Mayo got from USC he more than paid them back by raising the program’s national profile. Who actually talks about USC basketball now really? Seems like a fair exchange and if Mayo got something on the side for his troubles, so be it. If you want to call this capitalism as BeInMicelf does, then OJ made a capitalistic decision for himself and cut the best deals for himself. Screw the program. That’s why I like pro sports so much better because I gag on this homespun drivel about love of the game. Sad as it sounds, get yours because these mossy old organizations are going to get theres on your back be it white, black, brown, or yellow.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:07 am
WOW! Missed a live one today!
Saloongo, as has been already said, it is your condescending attitude that is most troubling. Realize that you are not the first guy with a major dissenting opinion to frequent this site. If you make the same exact arguments without being an obnoxious ass, then you will receive more respectful replies. But your lack of respect tells those who may disagree with you that you are not worth their time — because it is already evident that your ego and need to be right will trump any sincere and genuine quest for truth. No one wants to respond to that as it is an excercise in masturbation. Moving on you state…
“However, to call the current college athletes “exploited” is absurd. College athletics is providing them with effectively free exposure to professional organizations, and ultimately paving their road to a millionaire’s mansion on the hill.”
This is a common reply because too many people do not accurately understand the definition of “exploited”. People mistakenly believe that “exploitation” only applies to 5 year old girls in China working for 25 cents and hour in a dingy smoky factory that is rife with asbestos. But Marvin Miller clears things up:
“As an economist, I will tell you that exploitation means the difference between what your services are worth and what you get paid. With that definition, major league baseball players, including those who benefited from Jackie Robinson’s experience, were the most exploited people in the country.”
And using the correct definition, there are few people more exploited than the likes of OJ Mayo whose $$$ they generate dwarf his college tuition. There is no argument presented here that we didn’t already here prior to Curt Flood in baseball. “Stop complaining, be happy, and follow the rules” would have kept ballplayers making $50,000 while owners took in hundreds of millions. Like Flood there is no alternative system for an 18 year old in America. The age rule — while I do like it for basketball reasons only (i don’t like “potential” sitting on a bench) — is completely unconstituional. If there was an alternative minor leagues like baseball, then the equation would change. But until then, OJ should have gotten paid.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Whenever issues like this arise in college sports the one thing that always catches my attention is the resentment that some people have towards those athletes that have an opportunity to make millions. Very few things in life will burn a person up more than seeing someone that they feel is inferior to them get more out of life financially than they. Nothing but good old fashioned envy.
OJ Mayo and other star athletes are being exploited. To suggest that simply by recieving an “education” the exploitation is ok is assinine. That’s akin to saying slavery, or if that word is too harsh for your sensibilities, indentured servitude is ok because employment,room and board were provided. Pay those young men for their labor.
Modi. why is it so wrong for high school potential sit on the bench ? Usually the high schoolers are sitting in between college and international talent who are waiting for their potential to materialize. What’s the difference?
May 13th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Eric
Call a spade a spade a spade brother. The haters are angrey when African athletes specifcally get paid, make shit loads of money or are talked about in coversations like this about college athletes needed to be paid instead of being exploited by the #1 exploiter corporate nation in the modern world.
After all and as it was said earlier in this thread, African athletes aren’t the only one getting perks and under the table “gifts”, they are just the ones punished for it.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Why do you have to make it a race thing when it isn’t sankofa. Its a student-athlete issue, not a race issue.
May 13th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Once again the question arises. Did OJ do it!
If he took the perks, I don’t have a problem with it. If Q is ever in that position, as long as he’s not shaving points or doing anything illegal why not.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
DavidMac
In America inc., a place where ethnic cleansing and caste policy was created and socially perfected and continue to run to this day, it is ALWAYS about race. Even supposedly non racial issues get twisted by the dominant media –controlled by elitist Anglo-Saxon male oppressors- in to a “us against them” issue regardless of whether they actually call it by that name or not . Code words, framing an argument a certain way, pictures on top of pictures, distorted pictures etc, and the sheeples eat it up.
To you it’s a student athlete thing, because that’s how you believe it, but I’m not inclined to think so. Mizzo and the other media warriors can attest to the code words thrown out there daily… urban, hip-hop culture, thugs, athletes as opposed to student athletes, to name a few… are some coded words targeting African people.
Let me ask you man, how many athletes have been exposed as taking money from predator agents and the like are pictured looking like OJ Mayo. Do you think only the highly melanated are doing this? You think Anglo-Saxon athletes; some from challenged background are so much morally on another level that they don’t take money or gifts?
I want to keep my foot on the peddle dude, I have to try and shed light on the evils of inequity that’s my intention.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
The two biggest ones I can think of right now are Bush and Mayo. Does it matter that they are black? Nope. They are just the ones who got caught, it is no big deal what color they are.
I think the real reason OJ got caught is because he is stupid and was flaunting all the stuff he should have been hiding. Reggie got busted after the fact by guys who were trying to shake him down.
Do I think Leinart, Marino, Boller, Smith, or any other first round QBs didn’t get favors, hell no. Some of them most likely did get gifts and money, but they didn’t get caught.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
I say it does matter their color, because the media’s spotlight shines brightest when the perpetrator is dark.
I am not sure if he got caught due to his flaunting his stuff and while that is a distinct probability considering the feeling of being above the rest mentality of so many athletes today, neither you or I can say that. What I have read though is there was scrum to get his committment to an agent when a little bird ( turned out it was one of his “boys”) let it slip that he already had been “locked up”.
Again if you check back on all the cats getting “caught” it was because some one decided they couldn’t keep their damn mouth shut, it certainly wasn’t the athletes themselves.
And a note: OJ was being pimped when he was in grade seven. How wise were any of us at that grade level, much less when Bush and Webber were in college?
May 13th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
“Modi. why is it so wrong for high school potential sit on the bench ?”
Eric, b4 I answer the question let me state I only like the rule on selfish NBA fan grounds, but not ethical and moral grounds where someone’s right to earn a living is denied. Qualified vets stay on rosters longer instead of “potential” rotting — and not developing — on benches. There have only been three players coming out of HS in NBA history able to make immediate significant contributions their first year: Lebron, Amare, and Moses Malone — because they had NBA bodies. KG chipped in 10, so he is debateable. But Kobe, T-Mac, Jermaine and every other stick figure basically rode the pine. Why not develop? Keep a roster spot for someone more deserving? I actually believe that MJ and Doug Collins ruined Kwame forever with how hard they rode him that first year. They fucked the kid up for life…
The bottom line is that most guys coming out of HS AREN’T qualified their first year, and shouldn’t get a slot over a vet. It is the only sport where people who you KNOW can’t contribute draw a paycheck. In baseball they are sen’t back to the minors. In football, their bodies just aren’t ready. I either favor colleges paying athletes or a minor leagues like baseball.
May 13th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
I’m with Sankofa that race plays a major role… because it is often black players that get investigated to begin with. ESPN is completing a 4 month investigation. You know what. Investigations cost money. They are BUSINESS decisions, and ESPN needs a return on their investment. Investigating black athletes are simply more profitable in this regard. It is what biased white viewers like to read about whether admitted or not. The black athlete has been market tested over and over. That is why Pacman is in the news every day, but Tim Donaghy and Chris benoit disappear. Investigating Kevin Love — even if accurate — will not get you the same response, period. The narrative was already their for OJ Mayo — one supplied by the media.
When white and black athletes are INVESTIGATED by media with equal fervor, then race will cease to play a role. The only exception to this rule is The NY Daily News who believes that EVERYONE is scum. At least they are consistent.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
“The only exception to this rule is The NY Daily News who believes that EVERYONE is scum. At least they are consistent”
LOL! damn! I hear you man.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
We all know that the mainstream media is slanted against the so-called minorities. It is especially evident in this OJ Mayo story. Great point MODI, about how a 4 month investigation costs ESPN money, and in the midst of the NHL and NBA Playoffs, the sports world focus is on the Outside the Lines report.
That is why when I wrote the article above, I decided to take a higher route and not bring Mayo down, rather I choose to shed light on how he was in fact targeted if what ESPN reported is true. Just because the mainstream media says so, doesn’t always mean it is TRUTH.
We should question things, and by all means feel free to question things I’ve written and said. That is why I always report with my integrity first.
Bring it!
May 13th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Real rap right there. That’s my boy!
May 13th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
In my view the ESPN stories on Mayo haven’t been mean spirited are biased against Mayo. He is not some innocent person who didn’t know any better who was taken advantaged of. Its simple he wanted money he went to the highest bidder no problem with that its the truth. I like the angle you are taking Anthony, but that is no different than the angle most talk radio people and journalist take when this stuff comes out. Every year you have a discussion on whether student-athletes need to be paid for their services, so you are not breaking any new ground.
As for targeting minorites, I still don’t see where all that is coming from. If the people who got caught didn’t have dumb friends there would be no problem. As for OJ yes he was flossin his against the rules wealth. The dumb ass even called a reporter on a cell phone registered through T-mobile to the agent he was signed with, denying he had connection with the guy. OJ hasn’t been bright and he is getting his school in trouble, so what.
For all the people who want to say it is about race, tell me where is the racial aspect of the coverage and how the story broke? I want to know because I can’t see it.
May 13th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
None that is as blind as those who refuse to see!
May 13th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Thats what I thought, there is really nothing racist about the coverage, some are just mad that a black kid was caught accepting money and there haven’t been any white kids caught recently. If this is the case, it is not the news coverage that is racist, it is you and your attitudes that are racist.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
There is a racial aspect to this story and the way it was covered as with others.
As you said earlier, the chances that most major college athletes are taking “things” is high. So why is it only Bush and Mayo that were “investigated?” This gives the perception that others such as Love and Hansbrough (even though he is staying in school) are so moral and intelligent that they would NEVER take anything. When’s the last time we heard of a white college athlete getting into some type of trouble like this? Like I said in a discussion a few weeks back, Colt Brennan’s as is a felon on probabtion, how many black athletes would have gotten the opportunity to play after getting caught up in that situation…..NONE!!!
The discrepancy of reporting is all over. Another example. Take the story of Hansbrough and the other UNC player (Frasor or something like that) jumping off of the fraternity house balcony into a pool. How safe is that for anyone to be doing, let alone athletes. But how was it reported? As a joke, anchors laughing about it like the whole thing was a joke. How would that have been talked about if it was Michael Beasley? Hell, next thing you know he would have had “character issues” because of the whole ordeal.
Listen to the words, mannerisms and debates that are given when talking about players of different races in the same situation. I can give you many more examples of just how biased reporting has become.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
You say the way it was covered, how was it covered that was racist? Give examples.
I already said why Bush and Mayo were caught, Bush didn’t pay the guy who was giving him money in college. Mayo was going around flossing all the stuff he was being given instead of laying low. That is why they are busted. As for Love and Hansbrough, they like most guys who are getting favors are just laying low and not rocking the boat.
As for you Colt Brennan example, many black athletes get the chance to play, hell a lot of them get the shit covered up. I know that Oklahoma’s QB last season was kicked off the team for having a fake job at a car lot. In SC the QB was kicked off the team this year for stealing computers. Those guys were all white. Lawrence Phillips, black, beat women constantly and was seriously breaking the law but that was swept under the rug for him so that he could play football. So I don’t see your point.
Hansborught and Fasor jumping off of the Frat house is the equvialent of OJ Mayo taking money from agents? Lets see one is against the rules and the other isn’t. Doesn’t seem like a double standard at all to me, try again when you have comparable situations.
I’ve listend to the words and how the story was broke, at no time did I hear anyone talk down of OJ like he was some kind of crook are thug.
I think you are inserting your own bias into reporting.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
No DMac — you are not understanding.
First, I didn’t say that Tyler and Bobby jumping off of the balcony was as bad as taking money. What I said was the way the stories were reported on show flat out bais. Why? Because if that was Michael Beasley jumping off a fraternity or dorm balcony, do you think that sports anchors would have sat around a laughed at it? Or called him too much of a rish taker and he would have to be smarter? Hell, I wouldn’t be surprised if some of them were to suggest that those actions would hurt his draft stock. The same way that it was said on national tv, that Darren McFadden being in a National African American Fraternity displays him having “character issues.” How bais is that?
Second — The story about OJ and Bush are not racist. Again, I did not say that. The presentation behind them are. For example. Along with Bush on that USC team was a star QB in Matt Lienhart. He was supposed to be the great protoypical (sp) OB and translate into an all pro NFL player. So far it is easy to say that his NFL career is just as much of a “bust” as Bushs. But anyway — where was the major investigation into him? He was a star player, Heisman winner and 2 time candidate. Is he just so moral and upright that he would never take anything? Matter fact, where’s the investigation into Duke’s recruiting tactics. I’ve heard NUMEROUS times that things are on the up and up there, but never once have I seen a “major investigation” by anyone. Why? Is it because they would have to take down Coach K? What’s stopping some major media outlet from breaking that story?
Again, the stories themselves are not racist. But the fact that media moguls go out of their way to have investigation after investigation of black athletes while leaving the white players alone is silly to me. And obvious. You want another example? Here you go.
Game of Shadows. We all know the evidence was out there against Barry Bonds. Of course it was. SO, how come no one is willing to write a Game of Shadows 2 on Roger Clemens. Is the evidence out there? YES! Along with much worse stuff. Would that book be profitable…HELL YES!!! But still we have nothing. Why aren’t those same writers quick to expose the “greatest pitcher in the game?” No it’s not all based on race, but I believe that does play a part.
Third — If there are black players who have spent 7 days in jail for sexual assualt, then been assigned probabtion for felony burglary and tresspassing. Then they shouldnt be allowed to play either. But tell me this, when people talk about Lawrence Phillips in the media, are those accusations brought up? Yes. But when Colt Brennan’s name appears is his rap sheet brought up? No. Flat out no. I bet you he wasn’t even listed as a player with “character issues” for this year’s draft. Yeah he may have not had a high draft value. But the fact that he was still allowed to play after those serious actions is sickening to me.
Media genarlizations and bias abound because it sells money. Chad Johnson is a team cancer for being willing to sit out the whole year over his dispute. But the Bears better pay Brian Urlacher his money or he will threaten to retire. How different are these stories. Not really different at all. Both players went to the meida with their unrest, but only one is a team cancer and the other is so valuable that he should get paid. FYI - the cancer is the player who has lead the NFL in recieving yards since 2003 and is the only reciever with 5 concequtive years of 1,000 yards and at least 7 TD catches. But anyway..yeah the bias in the reporting on these stories is just my imagination….
I will say it ONE LAST TIME, the acts and reporting on these stories are not racist. If those players got caught doing what they are doing…then fine. CROWN EM!!!! But don’t go out of your way to expose and condemn black players, when that same effort you put into those stories would probably expose the same number of high profile white players. Put the same effort out there.
May 13th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
There is a story of the Rwanda massacre years ago. When the French neo-colonialists had put their tails between their legs and were fleeing the chaos. There was one female, who felt she should be included in the all Anglo-Saxon truck load of people boogie out of the country. After all she was not of the rabbles, she did give her body to a French man, and she was treated “different” than they.
Ultimately for her troubles and from trying to hang on to the back of the truck pleading for a hand up… she got a boot stomp on her fingers, and as she fell screaming to the ground all she heard was “you’re not one of us bitch” .
At that moment reality hit her with the force of a descending machete in the hands of a blood thirsty mob. She could not run from her reality of being African in a post colonial world, no matter her illusion and delusion.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Woo, good stuff guys! I just have to say I have a hard time condeming OJ because if I were still a teenager and someone was trying to give me free stuff just because I was good at basketball I’d be all over it. Honestly, we cannot expect teenagers who come from basically nothing to turn down money. I made some bad decisions when I was a teenager so I cannot wag my finger at teenagers today who make a bad decision or two. Plus, when OJ started taking money he had no plans of going to college anyway. The NCAA and NBA with their age requirements got USC into this mess. OJ doesn’t care if they lose scholarships behind his misdeeds. Why should he? We are a forgiving society and no one is going to care about this when he puts on an NBA jersey. He knows that.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
1) I’m not missing the point at all. How do you take to events that aren’t comparable and try to compare them to make a point. The fact is this, Hansborough jumped off a frat house into a pool, no big deal was made of it. Michael Beasley did not do anything to the equivalent so you don’t know how the media would cover it. So you build up a non-existant situation and try to use that as proof that the media targets blacks, sorry that isn’t working for me. About McFadden, so what that some idiot used being in a black frat as having character issues, who cares he made himself look like an idiot. The only evidence I heard trumpeted about him having character issues nationally on a consistant basis was the high number of kids he had. Again though, this really does not even factor into how OJ Mayo was portrayed so what is the point of even bringing it up.
2) So you are admitting you just want to see “them” get Leinart so that it would be equal speculation on white student-athletes. You don’t care if it is easy to be found like it was for OJ and Reggie, they should go after him just to even the situation out race wise. I think that is racist thinking, you show no want to find a problem, your aim and focus is just on getting one of “them” in retaliation for getting one of “yours”, I find thinking like that small minded. You criticize the media for going after the guys who are ratted out by their associate for taking money/gifts or guys who flaunt their rule breaking loot and act like they are doing this to target black players instead of realizing that they went after them because it was already out there and easier to verify. If you want to say they are lazy, that is one thing, but racist it isnt. Its not ESPN, Yahoo, or any other news agencies fault Reggie and OJ couldn’t keep a lid on their racket and got publicly exposed, their exposurel has nothing to do with them being black but picking the wrong company or being absent minded.
Barry Bonds and Roger Clemons both are getting publicly demonized and both of their legacies have been damaged, Roger, more than Barry, because of all the adultery allegations and the potention molestion or pedophile angle he has for messing with a 15 year old girl. There probably will be a book out on him later. So what is your point, both of them are getting pubicly denigrated.
3) First Colt Brennan didn’t spend time in jail for sexual assault, he spend time in jail for tresspassing and burglery. Second this is known by everyone, there were repeated stories last year on ESPN and in papers talking about him being a felon and turning his life around. I have heard the same story from a great number of athletes in college who went on to join the NFL. As far as bringing up character issues, who cares, and how do you know no team that let him slide did not draft him because of character issues? You don’t that is right, you are just pulling “facts” up out of the air to support your terrible argument that wants to see white guys get what is coming to them. I see now.
Chad Johnson is a team cancer this year because he is taking the teams focus off of getting better and putting it on satisfying him. Has Brian Urlacher acted out in the media as Chad has ? Last time I check no one said Lance Briggs was a cancer when he was doing hard negociating with the Bears, so again you really do not have a consistant basis for your views. You see what you want to see. You want to see that the media is built up against blacks, so you ignore all other evidence that points to the contrary, which justs shows you how hatred can taint you.
4) Last thing, no one is going out of their way to get the black folks, I don’t see where you are coming from. No one had to dig hard and deep to get OJ Mayo, he left his dirt out in the open and they got him. Stop trying to make it something more than what it is. Its a damn shame when you can’t accept the truth because you think there is a secret racist agenda behind everything.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
sankofa, are you a Rwandan? Hell were you born in Africa? Have you lived a majority of your adult life in Africa?
May 13th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
The sound you are hearing is the loud crashing sound of reality being smashed against the walls of ignorance in DavidMac’s mind. You have gone far beyond the point of “me thinks you protest too much” straight to the realm of “what the fuck are you on?”
You keep asking for evidence, you get directed to different examples; you twist and turn enough to ignore the answers to your question and get back into slinging wack shit! Dude, cock roaches don’t have the fortitude you do. I commend you for your stamina, what you believe in, you believe in strongly.
This reminds me of the people I deal with in my line of work; they like you done swallowed the blue pill.
http://www.whysanity.net/monos/matrix3.html
May 13th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Don’t be reduced to asking of my origin, it means you can easily be taken off your train of thoughts. See above post.
May 13th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Sankofa, do you believe that you are the fictional character Morpheus?
The fact is I’ve yet to see an example of how OJ MAYO has been treated wrongly because of his skin color. People pull out all of these strenuous connections to other events and situations which themselves aren’t racist and try to put that in a post about OJ MAYO.
Until there is proof about OJ only being investigated because he is black, why spread that notion out there.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
‘Kofa keep your head up man. your intelligience and studious approach is needed ’round these parts.
May 13th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Well said Sankofa, CoCo, Mizzo, Cevidence and AG.
Yo Cevidence check out thsess links I sent brotha Modi about this former Utah State player.
I wonder if this guy would have looked like Mayo or Bush would the media have covered his past criminal record…………YOU BET!!!
Heck if he looked like Mayo and Bush he probably would have never gotten the chance played ball in college.
utahstateaggies.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/pak_david00.html
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060316/news_1s16pak.html
May 13th, 2008 at 7:52 pm
origin, you are full of it. There are so many people, especially black Americans, that play for colleges and universities after setbacks in their life that is is ridiculous to even try to act like if David Pak was black he wouldn’t be able to play college ball. That is so intellectually dishonest, I really shouldn’t have to point it out, but knowing the people on this board they’ll all agree with you.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:06 pm
“Barry Bonds and Roger Clemons both are getting publicly demonized and both of their legacies have been damaged, Roger, more than Barry, because of all the adultery allegations and the potention molestion or pedophile angle he has for messing with a 15 year old girl. There probably will be a book out on him later. So what is your point, both of them are getting pubicly denigrated.”
With the exception of the NY Daily News, the media has been very kind to clemens. And i will state this again. I was THE MEDIA ITSELF (Game of Shadows; Excerpt on SI; ESPN; etc.) that came after Bonds. GOS authors spent TWO YEARS investigating him. yet they IGNORED Clemens, until he was outed by 1) The Mitchell Report; 2) His own terrible mishandling on every conceivable turn; 3) Congressional hearing; and then 4) the NY Daily News.
The media was FORCED to cover Clemens like it was once FORCED to cover McGwire — after not investigating him for 10 years despite federal stings (operation Equine) and bulging muscles.
When you are going to make a claim about media treatment, you must start with who they PROACTIVELY go after.
If Congress and Mitchell did not out everybody’s white heroes, then Bonds would still essentially be the lone gunman today…
May 13th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
The media in Alabama covers Clemens negatively, national news covers him negatively. In my view they all cover Bonds and Clemens the same now.
You are right, they did go after Bonds, but then again I believe Bonds was the only one from the BALCO trial and congressional testimony that was about to break one of the big records in American sports, so it made sense to target him. I’m sure if the roles were switched between him and Giambi the same thing would happen and nothing would change.
As for Clemens, correct me if I’m wrong but I do not believe he was directly involved with the BALCO situation was he, which is where the GoS guys got a great deal of their facts from.
——–
Like it has been discussed before, the reason they go after Bonds is because the guy is a surly, arrogant, asshole who treated the media like shit. If he was nicer and was more genial with the media they probably wouldn’t be coming after him like they are doing now. Which leads to my contention that they targeted Bonds because of who he is, not the color of his skin.
May 13th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
You state: “I’m sure if the roles were switched between him and Giambi the same thing would happen and nothing would change.”
Firstly, it is well documented that the Bonds treatment dates back to at least 15 years from the media… but to your statement:
Why are you sure of this? Based on what information? What precedence? Are you familiar with Operation Equine and Mark mcGwire in 1991. That’s right — 1991. No media for 14 years? Why no stories? Why does no one even know about Operation Equine today despite it dwarfing BALCO. Why nothing as he ran for a historic 70 HRs? Why won’t any media outlet ever refer to this landmark 2005 article on McGwire and operation equine? http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/sports/2005/03/13/2005-03-13_hitting_the_mark_fbi_informa.html
When the Jason Grimsley report came out implicating Clemens and Pettite (since allegedly called false — but there is conflicting info from David Segui), why did NO MEDIA OUTLET investigate it? Why did no one in media continue to bring up the allegations in their articles… Why did he continue to get stellar media?
Why has every single HGH bust (Ankiel; Glaus; Pettite) come from only the NY Daily News, yet all these people received kid gloves from national media?
Every possible example of a white hero getting busted is evidence that contradicts your statement. So if every possible precedence contradicts your statement, then why do you make it?
May 13th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
No it doesn’t MODI, thats just your worldview coming out. All the white guys you cry about, came out said they made a mistake and went about their business, except Clemens.
As for McGwire, there was no rule that banned steroids at the time so how was he breaking a rule and cheating?
Also for every white one there are black ones who get a pass as well, Gary Matthews Jr. being one.
The reason Barry is targeted is because the media hates him as a person so they really stuck it to him, this didn’t happen to Ankiel, Pettite, Glaus, Matthews Jr, Sheffield, and etc. because they are more likeable figures.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Gary matthews is insignificant… as is Brady Anderson, Bret Boone, or Lenny Dykstra… (though less so)… there is no reason to investigate further because nobody gives a shit about them…
Clemens is considered the pitching version quality of Bonds, McGwire is a HOFer who went for 7O Hrs and 6 SI covers that year, Pettite is very important because of his relationship to Clemens… Ankiel while normally insignificant was THE feel-good story last year
There is no “worldview” — just facts you stated: “I’m sure if the roles were switched between him and Giambi the same thing would happen and nothing would change.” …and I offered you a litany of COMPARABLE facts.
Even still you actually agreed with me in the end, perhaps without realizing it. you just seemed to attribute the Bonds treatment more to personality than race. Of course it is both which are inextricably intertwined. but that is another issue. i’m glad that we agree on something.
May 13th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Like I said when the facts get in the way, you change them to fit your worldview.
You gave me some incidents and compared them to a man people hated, Bonds, and tried to pass it off as being racist, ignoring the similar events such as Pettitte , Ankiel, Matthews Jr., Sheffield, and etc. Where you have black and white athletes use of supplements getting ignored.
As for offering me something comparable to Bonds and Giambi switching places how. First nothing you can offer is comparable because there is not another person who is going to be able to break the career HR record anytime soon, so you can say look they didn’t do Barry like that. Second the examples you did give, when I countered with examples which are the exact same except with blacks you disregard it.
As for Bonds, how is personality intertwined with race? Your personality is no more intertwined with your race than it is with your eye color or whether you are right handed or left handed. That is a foolish statement to try to pass off.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:08 pm
MODI and TSF family I just had an aha moment. Close your eyes, pretend your’e not on the starting five. Pretend you just clicked onto ESPN and have scrolled down to the comments section. Now go back over DavidMac’s last few responses and “explaination” of his feelings about thiswhole shamfull saga.
Really, really be there… uncanny isn’t it? LOL! look over in the distance (Alabama), it’s a parrot, it’s a Lemming it’s a… pamming(?)
Okay that was realy bad, but DavidMac has proven to be without the singular ability that seperates sensible sports fan from the herd. This one ability is curiosity. Curiosity is fundamental to all sentient beings, and seperates them from a bag of hammers.
He parrots the mainstream media’s lies to the T, without any serious curiosity to urge him to seek out alternative views.
If you follow this guys responses you’ll realize after awhile, he’ll just vomit up the same stuff over and over and hopes the splash back hits your nice clean arguments.
Back off MODI, even your well known patience will not be able to save you if you persist. This guy is like the Terminator, bullits, bombs, reason will not faze him as he doggedly heads for his target. That is to preserve the standard caste system designed by his heroes… anythig to the right of…well anything.
May 13th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I’m just going to say this and that’s it DMac…
How would you like to have a father as talented as Mantle…who becomes first 40/40 man even though they’d assumed Mantle would be the first…and just hearing stories of your father’s alcoholism. Your DAD never gets the respect of the media. You grow up in the club house when your father is in town and live Mays and McCovey …you don’t see him as much even though you have this talent because obviously he’s on the road. You hit bomb after colossal and memorable bomb and look over to the stands and see a ghost of your DAD. Someone walks by you with the stench of alcohol and you think of your DAD. You want to surpass his talent out of anger, fear, frustration and sadness. You open the paper to see what your DAD did the night before but the horrible stories smack you in the face over and over and over and over and over. You see the smirks and bullshit ass quirks of the “writer/reporter/dumbass/racist/jealous” cat.
They love and laugh around the lockers of the Van Slykes and the Jeff Kents even though they both are vastly inferior in talent…but smiles abound…
How would this affect you? As you grow into a fine ball player, you are asked the same dumb ass questions your father was asked over and over and over and over and over (pre steroids).
What would keep you from being the asshole everyone says you are?
Why can’t just one reporter ask him about the smell of the grass or his exchange with a diamond eyed child who put a tear in his eye?
This is say 15 years of the same questions over a 162 game season. Could you imagine?
Can you relate as a fan who just sees Bonds’ sound bites and not those of the “messenger”?
I can go on if you want…
May 13th, 2008 at 11:30 pm
Sankofa,
Do you hear the banjos?
May 13th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
LOL! Banjos and spoons!
May 13th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
Ok…..just making sure!!! LOL
May 14th, 2008 at 12:22 am
DMac –
Again, you are mis interpreting my words. So this is the last time I’ll respond to you on this topic seriously.
I had typed out a whole response to you. But just erased it. No point in even arguing with you. I respect your opinion, don’t agree with it, but I’ll try to respect it.
But clearly, I dont “make up facts” to support my argument. I work in and have worked in media outlets and have seen plenty of the practices I have pointed out. I know exactly what I hear and have heard multiple times. And if you don’t think the bias is there in a lot of situations, then fine, suit yourself, believe what you want.
May 14th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Sankofa, i will heed your words and eliminate most of my response because you are right, DMac has no desire to seek truth. I will just address one small point which may have been an honest misunderstanding on his part.
“As for Bonds, how is personality intertwined with race? Your personality is no more intertwined with your race than it is with your eye color or whether you are right handed or left handed. That is a foolish statement to try to pass off.”
I was referring to the media’s REACTION to Barry Bonds. Which is to say that “the black jerk” often gets far worse coverage than “the white jerk”. I have no interest in detailing this basic fact for you right now, but only to clear up the miscommunication.