Friday Fire: Is Black Sports Writing Gone Forever?
Click on the pic to find out who this great man was.
Coming on the heels of Cole Wiley’s interview and speaking with many journalists on the subject, one has to wonder if the Black voice is dead in the context of sports writing. I could write 10,000 words on the subject obviously, but a discussion here should have a similar impact.
Check this article out where Spike Lee chimes in on a subject near and dear to TSF hearts. Honestly, there really shouldn’t be a need for The Starting Five, but in this horrible writing climate (yeah I’m talking about the pack once again), there has to be some sort of check and balance (or just an objective voice) our size and popularity withstanding. I’m not apologizing for revisiting this over and over and over. Something has to be done. We must care about how our history is written or it will be forgotten like Garrett Morgan, Elijah McCoy and Granville T. Woods.
We don’t have job security in the field, so there is nothing to protect…just to achieve.
There are more great quarterbacks than Montana, Marino and Elway.
Tell ‘em Mos!
Bob Gibson arguably was the best pitcher of all time.
Randy Moss deserved more Offensive Player of the Year and MVP votes than Brett Favre last season.
Steve Nash did not deserve two consecutive MVP awards and Dirk shouldn’t have won one either.
Ricky Rubio does not deserve number one pick consideration.
Tavaris Jackson deserves more of a shot. Eli Manning was 0-2 to start the season last year.
Clarence “Big House” Gaines, Eddie Robinson, John Chaney and John Thompson’s names should be mentioned when speaking of the college coaching pantheon. I guarantee you those who are included would say so.
Mickey Mantle’s baseball card should not be worth more than Reggie Jackson, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron’s combined.
Should I not care about a kid who wanted to emulate Barry Bonds‘ timing mechanism sans steroid scrutiny?
If Barry Bonds played for the Yankees this season, they would be in the playoffs. Instead of writing this, Black sports writers wrote with the pack. That’s absurd.
Albert Belle deserved MVP in 1995.
Tim Duncan is not the best power forward of all time.
Ryan Howard is the 2008 National League MVP.
Michael Vick is in jail so the model of his athleticism and powerful arm are behind bars with him?
What are your thoughts here? I know some of you are going to give typically reasonable responses, and I would love to hear from Whites on the subject. Do you want Blacks shaping your view point of sports? Do you think we offer a biased perspective, rendering the Black voice immaterial in your eyes? Can Blacks write objectively without being apologists or disparate?
Here’s two questions I posed to LeBron. It is our responsibility to challenge athletes as well for history’s sake. As you can see, he doesn’t like the questions…
I’m at the 5:00 mark…
Sphere: Related Content
September 26th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3609632
Cedric Benson got cleared on all charges. But if you read ESPN’s article you will discover that it was probably because he’s a celebrity.
I hate them so much.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
Of course, we don’t need biased sportswriting from black sportswriting. We just need honest, objective writing from black reporters. We need to see points of view that isn’t white and middle-aged. Is it possible that biases exist? Sure. It’s called human nature. Objectivity in journalism is fine as an ideal, but in reality, we’re all shaped by our experiences, environment, and prejudices. Objectivity is what every reporter, regardless of race or creed, should strive for.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Is there objectivity in the current climate of sports writing?
September 26th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
To a degree, yes Miz. Are reporters always objective, whether they write about news, sports, etc? Not at all. There is no such thing as true freedom of speech or the press. Hasn’t been for a while now.
September 26th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
Pardon me but I find your response a little vague. Objective in what sense?
September 26th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Objectivity in journalism simply means to report the facts about a person or a situation without any hint of bias or prejudice.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
There’s only 100% objectivity in sports writing when talking about white athletes. I’m nobody important ,so I’m willing to say it. I have nothing to lose. People fear/hate what they don’t understand, instead of taking the time to think about why someone might take the actions they do.
I believe Albert Belle should be in the Hall of Fame, never mind MVP. I am one of the few who believes this, but I don’t care if he was an asshole or not. That’s not for me to judge. The man could hit with the best of them.
If Giambi can still get to play then Bonds should be able to play too. Why accept one and not the other? In some ways I dont blame the owners…I think the owners are more scared off by the fans and the media perception of Bonds then Bonds himself.
Steve Nash shouldn’t have sniffed an MVP. No defense = no MVP. It’s pretty clear why he won whether the people who voted for him realize it or not.
I still like Pujols over Howard for MVP though but I guess that could be a matter of opinion if you think the MVP should come from a playoff team.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
@Matthew Fudge
So how does that translate to today’s sports writing climate?
September 26th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I could live with Pujols Antone, but no one else.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
“Only 100% objectivity in sports writing when talking about white athletes”? You’re preaching to the choir, Antone. Which is why there has to be more black sportswriters writing about black athletes from a black perspective, period. Even if a white sportswriter has empathy and is objective, I can’t expect him or her to really understand what black athletes go through. Does that mean we don’t call B.S. when they screw up? Of course not. But the reporting as a whole wouldn’t be so one-sided.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:08 pm
Yeah, I don’t see anyone else you could make a strong case for if it’s not Pujols or Howard.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
“Even if a white sportswriter has empathy and is objective, I can’t expect him or her to really understand what black athletes go through.”
That’s an important point because it shouldn’t be on White writers to catalog Black history. It’s on us and I personally feel those who are Black haven’t only dropped the ball, but popped that shit.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
One other thing, Antone: too many people nowadays are too friggin’ lazy to think for themselves as far as figuring out why someone might take the actions they do. To do that would mean putting yourself in another person’s shoes. To do that would mean you’d have to put your own prejudices aside. To do that would mean possibly saying to yourself, “I was wrong.” Not enough people (in the US anyway) are willing to put themselves out there. That’s why Americans still can’t have open, honest discussions about anything volatile, whether it be about race, religion, or politics.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
I’m doing an interview. Please, please continue this discussion if you can.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:14 pm
You’re preaching to the choir, Antone. Which is why there has to be more black sportswriters writing about black athletes from a black perspective, period. Even if a white sportswriter has empathy and is objective, I can’t expect him or her to really understand what black athletes go through. Does that mean we don’t call B.S. when they screw up? Of course not. But the reporting as a whole wouldn’t be so one-sided.
————————————————————————————–
I don’t really expect them to understand what black athletes go through but I think the writers shouldn’t be so quick to bash someone and they should at least make an effort to educate themselves. I’d rather have them write nothing at all then write something negative without having full knowledge of what’s going on. The one problem with all of this is that the majority of the country is going to side with them, so it’s almost an impossible battle. Maybe things will change with the younger generation who has grown up a lot different then your older generation but even then we could be talking about an urban versus suburban thing. This country is divided in so many different ways that it can be scary at times.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Antone, that’s exactly what I’m talking about: for reporting to be objective, you do have to educate yourself. You have to think outside the box. You have to ask questions. You have to put your thoughts out there and risk being wrong. But too many people in MSM are unwilling to do that. That’s why I love sites like TSF and edgeofsports.com. That’s also why I admire and respect Bill Maher. There’s too little intelligent, thought-provoking discussions in this country.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
Black voices in sportswriting, authentic black voices, are more and more necessary with the mass of the viewing public being white, the ownership being white, and the majority of the players being black.
There is a fundamental disconnect among many sports journalists that is similar to political journalism, where they tend to lean towards those in power and control (ownership, management), and are apologists for them because they rely on the access provided.
Many of these journalists do not see the athletes as complete people outside of their sport, much as political journalists do not see ordinary citizens outside of the Washington, D.C. bubble as anything more than voting blocs in a narrative.
Black voices that understand the unique and sordid history of America and can place that in context to today are sorely needed. Same goes for women, Latinos, any minority voice that can balance out the pro-power slant that exists across the spectrum.
Oh, and Mizzo, I gotta go Pujols on the NL MVP. Howard was in a horrific slump for the first three months. If it were a second half MVP, Howard would be in it with Manny Ramirez and Carlos Delgado, but it’s all about a full season to me — and Pujols was one of two guys (Ryan Ludwick the other) who kept the Cards in the Wild Card race when they had no business being in it with their depleted pitching staff.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
“There is a fundamental disconnect among many sports journalists that is similar to political journalism, where they tend to lean towards those in power and control (ownership, management), and are apologists for them because they rely on the access provided.”
True, Signal. It’s easier to bash Barry Bonds for using steriods rather than put the hammer to Peter Magowan and Bud Selig when they were clearly more culpable. You create and enforce rules to protect people from themselves. Rules that aren’t enforced is the same as having no rules at all. Why would anyone expect Barry to not use when everyone looked the other way when he did?
September 26th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I’m still pissed at Selig for letting McGwire make a mockery of the HR record…which then probably led Bonds to taking steroids and breaking the record himself…but at that point I can’t even blame him…Bonds only crime is that he was so much better than all the other guys taking steroids that he became better than Babe Ruth instead of merely just a great player.
September 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Sure, he let McGwire make a mockery of the record. Sentimentality doesn’t pay the bills - money does. McGwire (and the Latino Uncle Tomas) hit home runs, people came, checks cleared, and everyone walked away happy. Nobody’s giving any money back. You can’t uncash a check. Someone should ask Lupica if he plans on giving back the money he made writing “Summer of ‘98″ the next time he bashes Bonds again.
September 26th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I think there needs to be a geniune Black voice in reporting whether is sports, politcal,music or local writing and more black voices in the editoral sections. Whites in this country feel that if a black person has an opinion that shows empathy towards the African- American community he/she is biased, well I got news for everyone on this board and anyone else who is lurking here, “THERE ARE NO OBJECTIVE REPORTERS” !!! because people have their own values, opinions and attitudes on life and how the world should function and even if you get a few white reporters who have some compassion and is fair towards their black/latin/asian subjects most will reflect the values of their ethnic group.
I get riled up when people say The Beatles are the greatest band of all- time and Sinatra it’s greatest singer and I say “by what standard”, when I can rattte off musicans and artists who impact on popular music is more profound than either act and when I say P-Funk is the greatest Band and Marvin Gaye and Bob Marley are the greatest singer because their music has inspired musicans, writers and people of all races and walks of life I get this “whaaa” because they are so caught up in themselves they can’t see another viewpoint outside of what the MSWM has fed them. Yes, there needs to be more balance and Black, Hispanic and Asian journalists working in the field.
And no more kiss-asses like Whitlock, Sharpe, Wall and Rivera
September 26th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Eric, God forbid if you ever say that James Brown was a better performer than Elvis. The Rolling Stones didn’t even want to go onstage after James when the Godfather ripped it up in concert one night. But saying Elvis wasn’t the greatest thing since sliced bread is blasphemous to white people.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
James Brown was the front man every singer wanted to be and everyone has been influenced by JB’S prescence along with his musical innovations (which are many) Elvis was a wannabe Wyonnie Harris whose stage act Pressley stole along with Billy Ecsktine’s clothing and look.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
I’m not going to say it.
September 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Say what?
September 26th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
The Signal to Noise went up, but folks don’t seem to hear. I hear the man. Say it again.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
Sly and the Family Stone kicked Bob and the Wailers of their tour when they opened for Sly because they were tearing it up.
When Sly kicks you off tour you’re doing something right.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
I’m Black and I’m proud!
I hear you on Pujos, but damn if this cat didn’t approach 50 and 150. In today’s game, those numbers are simply astounding. Howard is doing things that have never been done to start a career. He’s hitting late game dingers that probably will propel the Phillies into the playoffs.
See this is what I’m talking about, but I’m sure others would scream bias to the high heavens if Blacks had a balancing voice in the game.
Willie Totten deserves more historical acclaim than he’s received.
My Pop says it all the time that the goal posts get pushed back whenever someone Black is up for anything nationally recognized.
It’s like point shaving and history is rewritten because of it.
Kordel when he won with the Hail Mary bomb threw the rock over 80 yards against Michigan. Why isn’t that mentioned among the greatest plays (in any sport) of all time? I’ll add it to the bottom of the piece. Check the yard marker.
September 26th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
On the Pujols/Howard issue. Howard put the Phils on his back late in the season. He’s been there all season, strikeouts, etc. But I dare call him a clutch player. He’s shown up when it counts. Every year, you can’t even say that about Mike Schmidt.
The Cards aren’t even in the running, when Howard won it the Phils missed the WC by one game, St. Louis can’t sniff the postseason.
Also Howard might’ve won it last season, he missed about a month early in the season.
September 26th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
maybe i missed the answer to this question but permit me to ask it anyway: If Tim Duncan isn’t the best power forward of all time who is? and if someone even breathes letters that add up to the words Karl Malone I am going to run around this place hitting palm strikes on whoever stands in my way.
September 27th, 2008 at 12:59 am
To me the greatest Power Forward in the history of Basketball sure ain’t Tim Duncan or Karl Malone it’s Elvin Hayes
September 27th, 2008 at 1:09 am
“Many of these journalists do not see the athletes as complete people outside of their sport, much as political journalists do not see ordinary citizens outside of the Washington, D.C. bubble as anything more than voting blocs in a narrative.”
Nuff said.
September 27th, 2008 at 1:56 am
see to me greatest and most accomplished is a different thing.
I’d argue that the most skilled power forward is Elvin Hayes but the most accomplished is Tim Duncan.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Great points everyone.
And Mizzo your dad is so right about that moving of the goal post. He must have had the same talk with sista miranda because she always mentions that.
But like Mr. Rhoden said these athletes are nothing more then 40 million dollar slaves. Many of these so called black writers are nothing more then 1/2 a million or million dollar slaves. They sale their soul to the highest bidder to me a mammy or yes sir man. They would cut another black persons throat just to get ahead.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Oh and Duncan ain’t no power forward. Center yes PF no.
Oh and Mizzo did you hear Dirks comments about Avery?
Boy wait till he gets a load of Rick Carlise (sp?).
September 27th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
Thank you Origin. You are the first to say this.
That’s the point I was trying to make by adding that statement about Duncan. It’s like some writers are trying to make a place for him in history.
Nah I didn’t hear about Dirk. I’ll check that and get back.
September 27th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
Matthew:
I’m not going to say anything about the irrationality of expecting a job from people who believe themselves physically inferior to you — and intellectually inferior to a rising competitors from the East (China/India - 2.5M, 2.3M college grads each year vs. 1.3M in the US). What’s left for these people other than ruthlessness?
We have all these black folk who absolutely dominate professional athletics, all these college graduates with keyboards who can write, we have dirt cheap cyber space, and folks are actually complaining about the voice of black sportswriters. It’s probably a good thing that most of those writers for the Chicago Defender and Pittsburgh Courier are D-E-A-D. If old age didn’t kill them, this surely, surely would.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
The funniest thing about the Pujols - Howard question is that if Pujols were born in the US and didn’t speak Spanish, he’d be considered Black.
I do long for the days when the African family loves itself enough to merely recognize one another across imaginary lines of language, national border and skin tone.
One day.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Nice convo
Just a couple of points.
Franks sounds like a little boy compared to Billie Holiday. Frank was great, Billie GOAT
I vote for Pujols too. His numbers are simply better than everybody elses.
ED
JB was great, but Elvis was a genius. Trust me, as an entertainer, Brown had him beat, but the young Elvis as a singer was the greatest Rock and Roll singer ever….by a mile. Gp check out his early stuff, I mean 1955-1958, before he started making movies. Dude was true to the game. Check out Pops-”Up the Lazy River.” Then check out Elvis-”It’s alright.” Nobody knows it, but the young Elvis was the Yound Louis’s son.
T3
Yeah, your point makes sense. McCain was so concerned with “winning” the war last night that he failed to recognize that the US won the war in the first few days, it’s the so-called peace-making and Democracy-building that’s the bugaboo.
September 27th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Oh I almost forgot
“Sound track to Superfly’ >>> “What’s goin’ on”
September 27th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Temple says
“The funniest thing about the Pujols - Howard question is that if Pujols were born in the US and didn’t speak Spanish, he’d be considered Black.
I do long for the days when the African family loves itself enough to merely recognize one another across imaginary lines of language, national border and skin tone.
One day.”
So true brotha Temple. Mitch albom is probably the only MSM sports writer who I have ever heard even say that black latin players were even black.
I remember him talking about the lack of black american players in baseball and said that actually there are plenty of black players in baseball. They just happen to be latin.
The first and only time I agreed with that fool Albom.
On a side not Temple thats what happens when black folks throughout the world have had to deal with colonialism……it f#$%s up the mind of black folk.
And folks wonder why black cubans supported the cuban revolution so much. While white cubans here hate castro till this day.
However there are black individuals and organizations in countries like mexico, cuba, brazil and other coutries who are trying to bridge the gap and bring about black self awareness. From rappers like Tego Calderon to organizations like Criola.
Check out this article Temple http://www.miamiherald.com/multimedia/news/afrolatin/index.html
September 27th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
I agree with several of the points made here. Sports reporters should be more objective and probe deeper, particularly when we know we’re being fed bull.
Not to absolve myself or anyone else in this profession, but I do feel compelled to provide some defense, or at least understanding.
Sports journalism is such a different world than it used to be. But not just on the reporting end. Athletes have changed dramatically. Access to athletes, even more so. And really, it’s the access aspect that has probably had the most tremendous influence on what we write and what readers consume.
It’s harder to build a total perspective of an athlete when you have to go through a team publicist, that athlete’s spokesperson, his boys, etc. I read Roger Kahn’s “The Boys Of Summer,” and I was just stunned at the level of access he had to the team he covered. They all stayed in the same hotel, ate meals together and while some could argue that perhaps the objectivity was compromised, the fact remains he was able to deliver compassion and respect for the people he covered.
But that mutual respect between subject and reporter is gone because we’re simply not put into the position to ever develop it.
The relationship between reporters and athletes is much more adverserial. No question, we bear some of the blame. It’s a bigger pie available for sports writers, and some of us will stop at nothing to attain it. And, without question, there is jealousy among sports writers toward the people they cover.
But in an age where athletes have their asses kissed from the time they show any promise, the people you cover don’t always make it easy for you to bring that deeper perspective.
Case in point: Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey. Bonds didn’t like the media from the start. He didn’t like how they treated his father. Understandable. He was self-absorbed and a little entitled. I know black sports writers — great ones — who have tried to extend that olive branch to Barry, only to be rejected, cussed out, and treated poorly.
It was the same with Griff, who has, as time has gone on, become more comfortable with the media and has allowed us to get that special glimpse. But he also brought some baggage into his relationship with the media.
I agree that black writers should definitely bring a different perspective — it should come naturally just from the experience we have living in this country — but shouldn’t black athletes do so as well?
Knowing that many people in the black community have a different understanding of Barry Bonds, why wouldn’t Bonds reach out to a black newspaper and give them access he hasn’t given the MSM? When black athletes are looking for people to write their autobiography, how come they rarely choose a black author to tell their story?
So while you can certainly accuse black sports writers of losing perspective, you can easily make that same accusation toward the black athletes being covered.
You guys brought up Albert Belle. I agree that he is a for-sure Hall of Famer and should be appreciated more, given what we know about PEDs. But I covered Belle for a summer and he is one of the nastiest human beings I’ve ever encountered. I was certainly willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because I realize that not all athletes are comfortable being mobbed by the press, and not everyone has a good day. And, for sure, black male athletes are sometimes stereotyped as angry and difficult to deal with.
I approached Belle more than a few times, just as a person and not with a pack. And not as someone who needed something from him. I wanted to understand this cat. He cussed me out. A few times. There are hardly any black baseball writers and those I know who had experiences with Albert would tell you the same thing.
Now it’s real easy to say that black sports writers have a responsibility to cover black athletes with a deeper perspective, but that’s not easy to do when said athlete is a real pain in the ass and they’re not letting you in. And as a result, you wind up with the same superficial understanding of the person as everyone else. Is that your fault or the athlete’s?
Let’s say Belle just didn’t like dealing with the MSM, or white reporters, whatever. Fine. So, again, what’s to stop him from reaching out to Bill Rhoden or, at the time, Ralph Wiley and giving them an interview? Absolutely nothing. His story could have been told, but he didn’t want it to be.
Another thing: I know of several black writers who have given certain black athletes many benefit-of-the-doubts have brought that deeper understanding to the pieces they write about them, only to see that black athlete, when he has some breaking news, go directly to the white reporter and give him/her the shine.
If you feel like black sports writers lack loyalty and perspective, let me tell you, they aren’t the only ones.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Ms. Hill
This is your return? Wow.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Look
You have a job to do and it is to be objective. You still have this notion that the petulance, irresponsibility and mediocrity of the media vis-a-vis how it demonizes athletes is justified because athletes don’t kiss your asses. That’s just bullshit, always has been. Always will be.
When some clown comes into my ER and he’s got a Swastika and a white pride tatoo, I don’t look at it as a license to treat him differentially than someone who comes in talking about they love Kobe Bryant and Clifford Brown. Fact is that I might like one more than the other, but I have an obligation to treat them both to the best of my abilities.
You clowns would do well to learn that lesson and not be so damn petty. And BTW, one of your black colleagues, who works for your racist Machine ESPN, DID come into my ER and I happen to think he’s as big a clown as you have working for you. But he never knew how much I despise him and what he stands for and he never will unless he gets some balls and wanders ’round these parts.. THAT’s called professionalism.
Look it up.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
I’d like to think that being a doctor (or whatever medical personnel) and being a journalist were entirely different functions, but that’s just me. If I’ve got the measles, whether I’m an asshole or not is irrelevant to the treatment you provide. But when you do a story, it kinda helps if you have that source’s cooperation, otherwise you wind up with a superficial, pack journalism understanding of the situation.
Besides, I wasn’t really speaking to speaking to day-to-day journalism, where just the nuts and bolts are required. I’m talking about deeper pieces and generally how an athlete is perceived. If Albert Belle always acts like an asshole, how is it my fault, as a journalist, that he’s perceived as such? If I’ve tried to see if something else is there, to see if something is missing but he doesn’t cooperate, what else am I to think other than he’s an asshole? He hasn’t given me any evidence to suggest otherwise.
I’d also like to add that sports journalism should not be defined strictly through the prism of ESPN. That’s a disservice to the black sports writers out there doing unbelievably good work all across the country.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
One more thing: I’m not disagreeing with many of the points made here. Very valid and provable points made all around. I would be lying horrendously if I said sports reporting was 100 percent objective. Not even close.
I’m more less speaking to black sports writers specifically and unlike some of you, I don’t consider them to be a grand army of sellouts just following massa’s instructions. I respect and personally know far too many of them to ever even let that come out of my mouth.
I’m talking specifically about how black writers relate to black athletes and attempting to explain the intricacy of that relationship. It’s just not what it used to be, and yes, both sides can share a little blame for that.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Doctor thank you.
You still want to blame the victim for your refusal to fess up about your responsibilities as a Journalist.
Shading the story because you personally find the athlete to be an asshole is simply passing the buck. They don’t have a professional obligation to be nice to you but you do have an obligation to be objective.
Good God, why is this news to you folks in the media other than the same arrogance and lack of civility in you that you decry in the very athletes you demonize? You’re being dishonest and you know it. It doesn’t take a Barry Bonds to cuss you out, all it takes is a Kobe Bryant to not kiss your ass and next thing you know he’s the Devil. Make him black and you and yours want to lynch him. Don’t be acting like the white boys who make the rules and to whom you answer need someone to cuss someone out to give him the full treatment.
Simply amazing.
As to ESPN, it’s impact as a force for evil and racial hatred cannot be over-stated. it is, IMO, the biggest force FOR racial hatred, in this nation in the last decade.
September 27th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
OK, this is written after your last post above.
The relationship between black athletes and black writers does seem to be interesting and worthy of comment outside of the paradigm I’ve adderssed.
September 27th, 2008 at 11:14 pm
I know Pujols is hitting .357 but Ryan Howard and the Phils just clinched the East. Dude might have 50 and 150? Why should that be nullified because he might strike out 200 times? Isn’t it all about run production? Run production means wins right?
The goal posts get moved back again…
Jemele I get what you are saying about the athlete, but here is where I feel I’m a little more different than most.
Because I don’t work for the mainstream, I called each league every business day for three years and got three agent contacts (still do). I called them. I left emails. I sent poetry. I did what ever I had to do.
This has given me a certain respect from the athletes, agents and publicists and now athletes call me for interviews.
They call me because they want to get the real story out. They don’t want some half assed superficial bullshit rehashing stories already written a thousand times.
Why do you think athletes have their own blogs?
I keep in touch with the agents and publicists throughout the off season, during the season and sometimes just to say hi.
I get athlete’s numbers. I don’t bug and blow up their phone all the time, but I do call just to see how they are doing. I got that from Chuck D. He did it with me and I’m very appreciative. Thanks again Chuck!
I understand you might not have the luxury because of deadlines but I challenge myself to crack even the worst media offenders. I’ve been cussed out by Tim Duncan after waiting patiently for a big man piece I’ll post soon. I can’t stand his ass and I’m sure you know how he is. The media protects Timmay. He’s just as surly as any athlete probably ever…but he gets a pass for some reason. Of course I will write about him objectively this season. I have to for I have no other choice.
Rasheed Wallace will give you a “both teams played hard” every single time you ask him but if you try to get to know him, you will get some true words. Sheed is the shit but he’s been painted this crazy ass clown by the mainstream. That man is Philly through and through, if you understand this you’ll approach him differently. Anthony Gilbert knows this even more than I.
If an outlet has an history of writing with the pack then why the hell should an athlete give them anything? Seriously. We gotta come with better angles. We have to be more creative. We have to challenge ourselves in the midst of adversity.
Would athletes spit in our face if past writers didn’t snark their way to the top just to sell newspapers?
There are Black writers who in essence become the Black cop in the locker room Jemele. Not all, but some are just as much assholes as their White counterparts (those that are assholes). We have to put in the work on and off the field. Sometimes I feel like a cheap trick but I do what I have to do to get the story and get it right.
I’m new to the game and yes I’ve gone to great lengths to cultivate player and team relationships. I’ve flown to charity events broke as shit, but came away with a couple more publicist contacts each time.
I use those contacts like a bus topography. I drop a line here and there and here and there. Eventually someone gets sick of my ass and calls me back. They respect the determination. I’ve been told no hundreds of times over the last three years, but I’m still here.
The Pursuit of Happyness taught me so much but I was living the movie as it was released.
Athletes have a face they give when you walk in the locker room. It’s up to us to get pass the facade and get what we need on a real down to earth level.
I guess they see me differently because they know I’m not gonna screw ‘em just because some editor runs with the pack.
When KG walks in the presser and says “Whassup Mizzo” in a room full of reporters at the Finals, I know I’m doing my job.
This is not about becoming athlete advocates. You brought up a great example with The Boys of Summer. If that’s what it take for us to get it back to where it needs to be, then that’s what we have to do. It’s as simple as that.
Where were the mainstream stories coming to Tavaris Jackson’s defense????
So what Eli Manning was a number one pick, Jackson basically came Africa to make it into the NFL. He deserved more of a shot.
Writers all over the place were calling for his head even after a 68% completion rate in the preseason. That scrutiny filters down to the fan and then to the field and eventually to the owner’s box.
We all know who benched Jackson and it wasn’t Childress.
If we quit with the pack bullshit then the Black quarterback will be allowed to breathe just like his White brethren.
The percentages of Black quarterbacks that make it in the league is so low compared to Whites it’s ridiculous. Why is it when they get on the field a BIG ASS magnifying glass follows them around whenever the sun shines hot?
I say this again that Black writers can change this perspective Jemele. I’m doing it broke from our small corner of the Internet.
If I can do it, anybody can.
I’m on a mission because getting this right transcends sports and that is our sole aim in doing what we do here.
If we have to make snark obsolete one by Deadspin one then we have done our job.
September 28th, 2008 at 12:31 am
Mizzo, I applaud you for going that extra mile, but as you mentioned, with the demands of deadline in the MSM, you might only have two or three shots to get a guy to open up. I do the same as you — keep in contact with publicists and others — and know of several black writers who do the same thing. Sometimes, it pays off, sometimes it doesn’t.
But as much as you’ve done to extend yourself to black athletes, I’d be willing to bet that when one of them is thinking of writing a book, they don’t even come to you or think about you. Yes, black writers could do more to evolve a different perspective, but so could black athletes. I can’t tell your story if you don’t talk to me, or if you lump me in with everyone else. That’s not me expecting my ass to be kissed. That’s me expecting you to be as professional as I am. That’s me expecting you to give me a chance, just like you expect me to give you one. You want me to see outside of your stereotype, but you’ve got to be willing to see outside of mine, too. It’s a two-way street.
A guy being an asshole doesn’t bother me, but it does prevent me from seeing the entire scope. And despite his behavior, I’d never say Albert Belle didn’t deserve to be in the HOF. So, yes, I can be objective in the face of “adversity,” LOL.
I just remembering hearing stories from older black sports writers about how there was this kinship and mutual respect between black sports writers and black athletes. Of course, not to the point where fairness was compromised, but there wasn’t this…tension. Wish it were that way now.
And, to be honest, some of this is based upon what sport we’re talking about. One of the reasons the NBA is my favorite to cover is because it’s easier to break through those walls. Of course, there are some guys you’re just not going to get close to (LeBron James comes to mind), but there are so many guys who do let you in.
And as I said, think whatever you want to of ESPN, but just because we do or don’t do something, don’t assume it’s not being written and that perspective isn’t getting out there. The NBA probably has the largest collection of black beat writers of all the major sports and those guys do fantastic work (i.e., Chris Broussard). In fact, I just read an incredible profile of Stephen Jackson that was written by Marcus Thompson, a promising, young writer in the Bay Area. I’ve seen a number of really strong, encompassing profiles done on Rasheed Wallace (a tough nut to crack, but I’ve found him to be pretty easy to talk to.) I know of several black columnists who have come to the defense of Carmelo Anthony, including David Steele in Baltimore who opined why Carmelo Anthony’s DUI was such a big deal, but not Michael Phelps’. Mike Freeman, a black columnist for CBS Sportsline, was the first to write that the treatment of Chris Leak was racist. He also wrote that the continual praise and overhyping of Tyler Hansbrough had racist implications. And let’s not forget Bill Rhoden, who offers this perspective routinely for one of the most prestigious publications in the world.
So just because you don’t see it one ESPN, doesn’t mean it’s there. Although I notice when that perspective is on ESPN, it tends to go unnoticed around these parts
Anyway, the biggest mistake we make in the media is realizing everything isn’t either-or, black or white (no pun intended), good or bad. We sacrifice the complexity for immediacy, and it hurts us.
Oh, one more thing…several of our analysts have come to Tavaris Jackson’s defense — Tom Jackson, Keyshawn Johnson and Shaun King. All three of them blamed it on Brad Childress.
September 28th, 2008 at 12:44 am
I added two videos of my interaction with LeBron James. I have to challenge him. He’s not 15 anymore. One question coincidentally was picked up by your spot.
I hear you on the stories Blacks have written, but with the growing number of Blacks out there, it still needs to change. Three cats among hundreds coming to TJ’s defense is unacceptable.
I say this not out of disrespect to any Black journalist who is doing the damn thing but to say others who capitulate are doing Blacks–and Whites–a great disservice down to the letter.
Thanks for standing in their and taking it strong from Albert. We as writers (all) need to understand the action comes before the reaction. If i’m asked dumb ass questions (like the ones in the above videos) repeatedly, I’m going to sour on the press. Those cats were asking LeBron what his favorite city was? Come the eff on!
September 28th, 2008 at 1:01 am
Altho, Mizzo, you assume everyone agrees TJ shouldn’t be benched
(C’mon, you made that one too easy!)
But seriously, believe it or not, black sports journalism is making unbelievable advancements. Spike Lee provided the seed money for Morehouse’s Sports Journalism Institute, fulfilling a lifelong dream of Ralph Wiley’s. When I was coming up, there were five black columnists. It might be three times as many now, and a site like The Starting Five was a pipe dream.
Trust me, Mizzo, the seed has been planted, is being nurtured and is/will bear fruit.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:13 am
But what if there weren’t sites like this to challenge everyone? I didn’t say TJ shouldn’t be measured like everyone else. I said he hasn’t. Off to work. Please continue.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:36 am
Good discussion and important topic. The distinction should be made between a piece about “the person” and assessing their talent. Albert Belle could be the nastiest human being on the planet, but he deserved that MVP by a mile (still only 50 HR and 50 double season in history). This year Barry Bonds was completely wronged, yet few in mainstream stood up for him. His personality should have no bearing. Each case — like many Mizzo cited — is a failure of sportswriters.
—————————–
But to your original article Mizzo… there is no such thing as pure objectivity in any journalism. The best any writer could give is DESIRED objectivity — and many don’t even care about that. Personally, I can never promise “objectivity”, I can only promise to faithfully shoot for it — perceptive flaws and all. We are all culturally-biased through our personal experiences. The great thing about sports is that the stats give us some working basis for objectivity. I mean, unlike George Bush, no one could claim that Homer Bush deserved to be MVP — yet they both had the same stats!!! So as bad as sports is, it is better than politics. On merit alone, Obama should have a 40 point lead in the polls, but he doesn’t. But I digress.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:38 am
You asked what whites think. As a white writer who often writes about race, I have to be cognizant of my life limitations and human biases. Sometimes I succeed and sometimes I fail. I try to keep a lot of pieces to “objective” comparisons, and not “personal pieces”. I try to leave the latter to the likes of you, D-Wil, and others. But anyone can “quantify” racial biased behavior. Whether it is Belle not getting the MVP, McNabb treated like shit, or even Jemele getting suspended for reckless words while Bernstein doesn’t for far worse… But the problem is so much bigger than any individual.
Even if you had the most well-meaning and non-racist cadre of writers who faithfully desired objectivity (which we don’t at all), the sports writing community would still be incredibly biased. Its like putting a band together and everybody is playing the trumpet. They could even be great trumpet players, but good music won’t get made. According to Dr. Laphick’s study of AP sports writers, 90% of the writers are white and all but a few editors. This has produced a disastrous mess. The bias is so completely one-sided. And the profitability of that bias leads to the ESPN machine that kevdog speaks about. Pacman Jones gets 300 articles a year because readers want to read them.
The problem is too many white writers are not even TRYING to be objective. Some are straight racist, others have biases influenced by friendships with athletes that tend to look like them, and the rest have natural human cultural biases. The institutional imbalance is overwhelming. Then along comes the black writer who in mainstream, at worst, racially panders to white readers, and, at best, goes out of their way to be “even-handed”, when few of their white colleagues do the same. The sports-writing community doesn’t need INDIVIDUAL even-handedness when it comes to treatment of white-black athletes, it need INSTITUTIONAL even-handedness. So if 10,000 disdainful pieces have already come out chastising Barry Bonds, then there is no need for # 10,001 — even if it honestly represents one’s personal feeling. If the conscious sports writer — black or white — understands that they play IN A BAND, then they would pick up the sax or trombone if they saw all their colleagues blowing the trumpet.
So the answer to your question Mizzo is — from my perspective — is that black writers should consciously seek the under-represented angle to stories knowing that the obligation is to “the field”, not proving personal even-handedness when no one else is. They should often bring a black perspective that no white writer could know about. If the racial make-up of the sports-writing field ever changes to reflect the background of athletes, then the luxury might present itself to pick up a different instrument. ‘Til then, it’s all about improving “the field”.
September 28th, 2008 at 1:40 am
first sentence 2nd paragraph, I meant “white writers” (integral to point)
September 28th, 2008 at 2:31 am
Also, I suspect that more black writers without more black EDITORS will yield little institutional change. And that assumes that those editors have any real power. …and the AP needs to be overhauled that feeds all these negative stories. Hopefully changes will come with new recent leadership including Garry Howard who I believe takes over top spot in 2009.
——————–
One more thing: there seems to be a decline in the socially-conscious WHITE sports writer today that has pigeon-holed the black sports-writer. Perhaps if more white writers call out Favre a long time ago, jemele would get less hateful comments in ESPN conversation when she did so. Tell me, who is the big name white sports caster today that will stand-up like Cosell did when he went to bat for Ali? Would a white writer today do an investigative piece like jack olsen’s black athlete series in ‘68? Bob Costas is supposed to be a baseball purist, yet he stays quiet as Bonds in blackballed. All of the big name white baseball writers who have much clout were lacking forcefulness. Will a white columnist pick up on the Cedric Benson innocence story? I seriously doubt it.
Jemele, since ESPN devoted at least 6 articles to cedric benson’s past transgressions, please think about running with the implications of these new developments. Any consideration you give is appreciated.
—
—-
Jemele, I hope that you will consider giving this Cedric Benson innocence story some more legs. ESPN already devoted at least 6 articles at TV segments to his bogus treatment.
September 28th, 2008 at 2:32 am
sorry for typos and double-phrases today. watching TV at same time!
September 28th, 2008 at 4:31 am
Mizzo, Modi and Kev you guys made some great points.
September 28th, 2008 at 7:47 am
Yo Jemele
I notice you gave props to Vincent Thomas’s stupid as a MF piece on Josh Howard. And appropos to the conversation, and completely illustrating a point you and he BOTH should learn.
Working for the white man don’t mean you GOT to down a brotha every chance you get. Validating Josh’s sentiments while calling him an idiot is a pathetic cop-out designed to have it both ways. Maybe when you so-called black, so-called journalists stop making your 15 pieces of gold on the backs of black athletes, you’ll have a different relationship with them.
Now if I were Josh Howard and that grinnin’ fool VT came up to me, I’d bitch slap him for calling me an idiot, but hey, that’s just me.
September 29th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
There is a fundamental disconnect among many sports journalists that is similar to political journalism, where they tend to lean towards those in power and control (ownership, management), and are apologists for them because they rely on the access provided.”
Signal, the sports side I get. How does this translate to political journalism?
September 29th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
The thing I like about KevDog is that his bite is worse than his bark — and he’s got a serious bark.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Matthew:
I think the linkage here is that sports journalism is political journalism. Of course I don’t mean this in a pure sense, but from a cultural standpoint, athletes have historically operated as political figures who used their visibility, money and connections to open doors. Many sacrificed millions of dollars for the sake of principles.
As such, these men and women operate outside of elected office to carry out a political aim. Those actions have lacked the coordination and consistency of organized political efforts, but there is a solid tradition. I believe that’s one of the reasons why people like Michael Jordan became so popular. Eschewing any sort of political stance placed MJ along the OJ continuum of those without eyes to see or ears to hear.
It’s a tack that has been popularized, but it goes against the grain of American sports — even white athletes are expected to give back on some level. When you read local papers in small town America, white athletes are plastered all over the place for making contributions. Jordan’s “Me First” attitude that has served as a paradigm shift for LeBron Nation puts black writers who work for ofays in a curious position.
Can they castigate these players for turning the other cheek? What are the politics of the game that a sportswriter can actually write about? Where is the FIRING LINE? In other words, how far can you go before you are an ex-employee? Does it matter how far you go if you know a critical mass of your readers are white? Why bother?
In a sense, it’s a perfect gig. No real responsibility except for an occasional blast from Black bloggers. No real accountability to athletes because it’s all good in the cage. No one to deliver that pimp slap when it’s required…and all the loot that could never come as quickly if the WORK was to build a black-owned presence with an authentic voice.
Shit, what could be better?
That, however, is not the death of Black Sports Journalism. That’s not even a cold. Black sports journalists who have not pressed the Firing Line are only relevant with respect to Biology and Data Counts (How many negroes?). These writers are not part of the political calculus regarding Black folk and sports in America. If you read the work, you’ll see that the pieces consistently lack the rigor, depth and grounding of an authentic Black voice. Anyone could write it — as long as they CONSUME POP CULTURE. Black culture is not the same thing as pop culture.
When is the last time a Black sports writer who sleeps with the enemy wrote the type of piece that was not laden with trifling references to pop culture? When was the last time one of that crew wrote something that wasn’t easily written by one of their white colleagues? There is nothing creative, dynamic or uniquely Black about this group. For the most part, these writers are mere vessels of Black writers lacking the artistry, style, vision, clarity or skill of our tradition.
Black sportswriters have a proud tradition that has mirrored that of our best athletes. It is not in our way to separate this activity from the rest of what we do. This is a part of what we do - of who we are. Everything we do is political. When writers castigate Blacks while giving the sons of their employers a pass, this grants license to vile racists to ramp up their contempt. This is significant because the demographics of this nation are changing. Whites are going to be outnumbered before you know it…they are feeling tremendous pressure to succeed and survive. They admit to feeling physically inferior to Blacks — and have to live with the added insult of emerging Asian dominance in China AND India AND California. It’s almost too much to take. The gloves are coming off…that’s what Sarah Palin is about. The veneer of decency and merit is coming off. That’s what declining the debate was about. No more discourse. No more talking. It’s a call to arms for an outnumbered group facing the prospect of losing their way of life.
Enter “our” Black sportswriters…
They’re sitting in a prime position as the wealthiest (but least prepared) group of Black men and women play games to provide satisfaction for the Lazy Children of the Empire. Check out their work. What are these writers saying? Are they missing the moment? Are they right on time? Have they pushed the Firing Line? Who has crossed it? Would the same folks who sit in judgment of Josh Howard and Mahmoud Abdur Raouf and others demonstrate the same integrity in a moment of conflict? When the editors meet, what battles are fought? Which ones are lost? Which ones are abdicated without so much as a whimper? Which battles are not even recognized as meriting a battle? Since we can’t answer these questions without folks crossing the Firing Line, we know they’re not a voice of Black sportswriting. They’re a REPRESENTATION of an authentic Black voice - but not an authentic Black voice.
It’s all Memorex — and not a faithful recording, at that.
September 29th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Thanks for clarifying, Temple.
September 30th, 2008 at 2:04 am
DAMN!!!
That’s exactly what I’m talking about Temple3. You put everything in a nutshell that I’ve been trying to say The Starting Five’s entire existence. I was at media day for the Sixers this afternoon and the thoughts you lay out above came to mind in the midst of having a conversation with 4 Black writers. There’s one Black writer here who has everyone’s respect and that’s Donald Hunt. He works for the Philadelphia Tribune and I feel he’s Philly’s greatest Black writing soul model. This conversation was exclusive of him, but sometimes I feel like a mad scientist of sorts shouting the name of my people. The words I get are, “It’s not all about race. We can’t find racism in everything.”
Whatever.
I just want Black kids to have something to write their families can be proud of. Proud of in a total sense and not just because they have published work for all to see.
Something that brings a tear to their Grandmother’s eye because it’s real and not real fake.
The pop culture point struck the shit out me. It’s the truth and I can’t stand it! Why write a piece that kisses the collective asses of every g’damn reader you have? You are not going to please everyone. It’s just not going to happen, so please BLACK writers do your jobs.
If there’s a story about a Black athlete that’s easy to write, then write it! No one else is going to.
Again….Barry Bonds and Daunte Culpepper would be playing in their respective sports if Black writers stepped up and COLLECTIVELY did their due diligence and challenged the construct.
White writers write about their own. White writers write about us. We kiss the asses of their own and write BLACK athlete hit pieces that smooth society over just as you so eloquently say above.
Forget that! The current media model needs to change and it needs to change RIGHT NOW. Tired of waiting. I know I don’t have the keys to drive the engine, but I have to develop this source and see where it goes.
You are so right about writing and covering those who aren’t authentic authentic. There’s a lot of conflict in this job. Personally, what I aim to do has nothing to do with sports through sports. You’re right it’s more political but not political. Those who don’t understand the seriousness of their words in my opinion are killing future minds. Black culture, no matter the threat, has to sustain itself and for now, this is my vehicle.
Thanks for your comment Temple 3 and everyone else who contributing to this discussion.
Off to work.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:04 am
Yeap brotha temple as always you put everything in perspective.
Thats real knowledge your kicking.
September 30th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Thanks fam.
I must, though, that like KevDog and LastPoet, I believe in the potential of our people who write sports for white folks. I really do. I just cannot endorse what they presently do.
None of us are perfect, but we do have an obligation to do more than get in where we fit in. If the business was not sports journalism, but another heinous business (say slavetrading), what would their role be?
It’s pretty easy to figure out…they’d be the enslaved Africans on the corners of cities like New York, Alexandria, Newport, and Philadelphia handing out flyers to the slave auction. Just because that’s a job that paid in chitlins and grits doesn’t mean it was a job worth having. So it is with doing “hit jobs” for ESPN and Fox.
I think our people are smarter and better than chitlins and grits. So far, I’ve been proven wrong. So much so that these advertisers for the auction devoutly defend their right to broadcast the next distribution of Cheap Negro Labor. They seem to view it as a badge of distinction. Perhaps they’ve never seen their reflection in the dim light of those kerosene lamps. Perhaps they’ve forgotten about walking barefoot over cobble stone streets while their brothers and sisters are stripped bare for the amusement of the world.
It’s tragic, but I still have hope.
September 30th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
That’s heavy. Pound cake heavy. (I’m jonesin for one)
September 30th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I’d say that’s heavy like Big Shirley.
September 30th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
T3 dropping science like Ernest E. Just……
http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/Museum/ernest.html
September 30th, 2008 at 7:03 pm
I had better step my game way the hell up before I’m mentioned in the same breath with one of the founders of Q-Dog Nation (Omega Psi Phi). I’ll have to stand down from that compliment. Dr. Just was THE MAN.
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 pm
T3
No need to be modest. You’re the real deal. I didn’t know he was one of the original Q-Dawgs.
Are you familiar with Charles Houston?
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Temple, as usual a very thought-provoking post. So from purely an institutional perspective, what do you think needs to happen in sports journalism… here are some questions floating around that I’m interested in yours and any one else’s perspective:
– Would a young Ralph Wiley be able to work today under the ESPN brand?
– Your post speaks to the shortcomings of simply hiring more black writers as some end-all solution. Does having more black writers in mainstream increase the liklihood of the “authentic black voice” that you speak about just by the odds?
– Or does it have to come from a separate entity like the black newspapers in the old days… and if so, is that voice commercially viable? (not as some big money-making endeavor, but not free-blogging either — I’m talking just enough to eat food.)
October 4th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
MODI:
A young Ralph Wiley would definitely be able to work. Whether or not he’d be under ESPN.com is up for debate.
In answer to your next question, more black sports writers who are conscious, unafraid, and not worried about job security when truth is in danger of compromised is what’s needed
October 4th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I think the answers to your questions are obvious Modi.
Why does it have to be a young Ralph Wiley?
Just asking.
He was so talented they couldn’t turn him away. His vast readership would make sure he was put on.
I wish Black publications were more read. Some have a wealth of information beneficial to everyone.
Anthony Gilbert and I were at Sixers media day recently and I was impressed with how many Black faces there were in the press room.
But…
I found it very disconcerting that we were the only writers asking questions of the athletes.
We raise the bar and that is what is needed.
Now in the context of writing the same attention should be given. There were four of us having a conversation on this issue and one writer pointed out we as Blacks shouldn’t be so exclusive in our opinions.
It’s a comfort thing. Whites are so used to reading their own that they aren’t cool with a straight no chaser mind. It’s like hide the kids or some shit.
It’s Blacks as well. I get into these discussions all the time with writers across the country and I would say it’s 50/50. Some want us to toe the line, some don’t.
That shit pisses me off to no end.
It never should be about the paper.
It’s all about advancing thought for me personally.
Stand up and make yourself accountable or be peace.
October 4th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Well said Mizzo. Modi and Matthew make some great points as well.
Brotha Mizzo that’s just how it is when dealing with corporate america. I have worked on teams where a few black co workers would come up with an idea and preset it to their manager (who is white). The idea would be turned down. Then like 5 months later a white co worker in their team would come up with the same idea and present it to the same manager and the manager would claim how great of an idea it was and start to implement it.
In corporate america I have seen some black folks toe the line and deal with it when it came to discrimination. But then I have seen others fight it tooth and nail.
Sadly brotha Mizzo its the same everywhere.
Also Modi people said magazines like black enterprise wouldn’t be commercially viable because “black folks don’t save money or invest” or that story writers like Zane couldn’t make books because “black women don’t read”. He11 they even told Tyler perry that black folks that go to church don’t watch movies. All stupid and untrue.
I believe if the voice is real and genuine black folks will support it.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
MODI:
I basically agree with what Origin said.
KevDog:
Thanks. Yeah, I’m familiar with the architect of the CRM legal strategy and Dean of Howard’s Law School. That’s Thurgood’s “legal” daddy. I better know him. That’s the man that killed Jim Crow — with a law book and a shotgun.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
MODI:
I don’t know enough about Ralph Wiley on a personal level to know if he “could” work there or would even choose to work there. These are different times. “White people,” per se, don’t control distribution of anything the way they did 20 years ago. A young writer with the talent of a Ralph Wiley would need ESPN about as much as Keith Olbermann — not at all. ESPN is not the best corporate entity doing sports…it’s the largest. The level of writing, craft of production and the like are mass-production oriented and largely mediocre. The Sporting News still has better writers — they probably always will. Sportsonmymind has better writers. So, ESPN as a destination, should be classified to support the larger question.
In this respect, ESPN is perfect for people like Jemele Hill, Scoop, even Whitlock. When ESPN was hungry - when Tom Mees was alive, when Olbermann was there, when Ralph Wiley was still alive, when Hunter Thompson was there, it was a different animal altogether. Essentially, the network has moved from a great 24-hour classroom on sports journalism to Frat Row.
There is a grand illusion of excellence that I don’t believe RW would sanction. ESPN has some people who do a great job. I’d watch Kirk Herbstreit any day of the week. Lisa Salters is excellent. Steve Cyphers is very good. But, overall, the network has become a joke. Arguably the greatest cash cows on the network (PTI, Sunday Countdown, etc.) are all shows that are predicated on the MOST superficial introspection. Only Bob Lee’s OTL survived the growth spurt to DisneyDom-DumbDumb. The new sports magazine probably resulted from the profound embarrassment of the founders.
The problem they face is that everyone is either a former player or a journalism major. This means no one has any content knowledge beyond the discipline of “the job.” So few of these stories are enriched by a broader knowledge of life and the world…guess who does the best job of connecting the dots? — Kenny Mayne. That’s right, Kenny Mayne.
Nah, I don’t think Wiley would be impressed enough to want to work there. He’d probably be working for a FREE BLOG honing his craft preparing to tackle the beast — right after he pitched his new platform to some rich ballers with the nuts to buy some server farms and hire a few techs…yeah, probably something like that.
October 5th, 2008 at 12:41 am
T3
Mr Houston is indeed “The man who killed Jim Crow.” But so few know of him it’s pathetic and sad and simply wrong.
I’ve got him top 3 most influential black foks in America in the 20th Century. MLK Jr #1, Houston and DuBois 2A and 2B.
The fact that almost no one knows of him reminds me of the line by Bunk when he dressed down Omar…..
“Makes me sick, MF”er how far we done fell.”
October 5th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
I hear you. I have to disagree with the list, though. And, not to take this thread some place unintended, but…
At least you have a list and that’s a starting point.
I’d be interested to hear about why your list looks the way that it does and what criteria you applied. I feel like Mizzo did something on this awhile back…I forget the order that I had, but my criteria precluded King and DuBois from being in the top 3.
October 5th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Temple you are correct. We all contributed to the piece here.
October 5th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
T3.
I see and agree with your main thesis although we will continue to have to disagree with the analysis of effect of various figures.
I chose King Jr. because his use of the media and his ability to connect to that higher being in all of us reverberates to this day, in city after city, state after state and nation after nation, because he was able to unite black and white in a common cause of Justice and fairness and peace, which, despite my sometimes war-like stance, I still hope we can seek, because ultimately, he his vision is one that can possibly save the Human race if we’re smart enough to pursue it.
I chose DuBois because he is ultimately, the spiritual father to every single black American who has ever taken the path to higher learning, because his example in how we need to see ourselvess, I believe, influenced everyone that came after including virtually everyone in the discussion and because his work as an academician, institutional leader and intellectual father is overwhelming in it’s influence.
Houston for obvious reasons. The LDF, Taking Howard Law school from a night-time unaccredated school to the greatest constotutional law program in the nation, recruiting and training Thurgood Marshall, Spottswood Robinson, Oliver Hill et al, his 20 year assault on Plessy etc, justifies his position on my list.
October 6th, 2008 at 12:13 am
I recommend three things:
1) Listen again to King’s speech in 1967 at Riverside Church re: the Vietnam War.
2) Listen and read his last public address. April 1968 - Memphis. Check my blog. I have a fairly detailed post on this speech. It’s called King’s Nationalist Moment.
3) Re-read “Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?”
The man who delivered those speeches and wrote that book is not the same man who was on the podium in 1963. In fact, the reason the CRM was as successful as it was was in part because it hard the support of American big business. I’m glad you mentioned television - because it’s not as if A. Philip Randolph whose labor agitation (for grown folk) laid the foundation for the serial lawsuits vs. the Supreme Court (on behalf of children) would have eschewed television. It wasn’t an option for him in the early 1940’s — but it was enough for him to get a President to desegregate the armed forces of the United States of America — because he threatened to MARCH ON WASHINGTON.
When Rustin, Young and others (including Dr. King) actually conducted the march in 1963, the timing could not have been better. The world had seen images of white brutality — in the American South and in Africa, as well. The US was not the only place which was being subjected to a revolutionary time. In fact, the funding by corporations, leadership by non-blacks greatly circumscribed the movement…it’s why the unfinished agenda of the CRM is so vast. When King was killed, many of his former allies had deserted him.
When you think of his “influence,” are you thinking of the influence of his priorities as he expressed them after 1965…or are you thinking of what he said on the podium? If it’s the latter, I’m afraid he wasn’t nearly as influential as you imagine. King called for Black unity - especially with respect to economics…he wanted Black folk to strengthen Black financial institutions and also to avoid the moral pitfalls to which so much of white America had succumbed. That part of his agenda — the unfunded part — was not NEARLY as successful as the subsidized part…the part that enabled Democrats to create a viable Southern Strategy and allowed the nation to avert embarrassing images from home as they pitched “Democracy Colonialization” abroad.
King was a complex, dynamic leader whose greatest desires were very closely aligned to those of Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammad and others, but his legacy with respect to those wishes simply isn’t comparable. No television, no CRM. Now that people are so used to violence, even images of death and dying won’t galvanize a people to action. The CRM would have been like Darfur were it not for cameras.
James Baldwin wrote an excellent piece on Faulkner and Desegregation that is worth reading because he strips white Southerners butt-ass naked psychologically. It struck me quite clearly how the impact of an entirely new medium was essential to transforming the South. It wasn’t merely our struggling. We’d been doing that since the 1500’s (We were here LONG BEFORE 1620 and Jamestown.) We’re talking about Black Anti-Terrorism Strategies and Tactics. Dr. King exists along a continuum of activists and organizers — and he became the face of a movement he only assisted in orchestrating.
Check it out.
Finally, I’d say given where we are with the domestic challenges to US war hegemony, King would be saddened to say the least. The people have just been robbed of $700B and they’re smiling. The US military spends $623B; the rest of the world spends $500B (COMBINED). The US war machine is more advanced than ever.
Holla back.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:12 am
T3
Thanks for the educational discussion. Made me go back and re-read some MLK Jr.
I believe I understand the point you’re making about Dr. King and I agree with it 100%. He is similar to Louis Armstrong. When most people, those who are not Jazz fans, think of Pops, they think of the ambassador, the old dude, grinnin’ and singing “Hello Dolly,” or “What a Wonderful World.” But those recordings don’t even register a blip in the real history and influence of Mr. Armstrong. His place in history as America’s Mozart was secured decades before, in about an 8 year period when he was virtually inventing Jazz and American singing all at once with his Hot 5’s and hot 7’s recordings. Louis was beyond cutting edge, beyond bluesy, beyond dangerous and beyond brilliant. His playing in those days had almost no relationship to his playing from about 1935 on.
So it is with Dr. King. MOST people remember him for the speech in Washington and for his dedication to non-violence. But as you correctly point out, his greatness transcended that and moved into the revolutionary. I won’t even argue the case that he wasn’t in many ways the descendent of Garvey and Muhammad because he cdearly was. I also won’t argue the case that his timing didn’t help make him.
Mr Randolph was a political figure and leader of the sort of Dr. King no doubt. And I take nothing away from him when I say that his timing was better thsn for instance Frederick Douglas, but worse than MLK’s. Still, I think Dr. Kings accomplishments as a political, social and spritual leader place him in a unique position unoccupied and unapproached by any American ever.
I will take issue to one aspect of your post and it’s only because one of my favorite topics is the legal history of the US regarding the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments, the useages of those amendments to achieve ends that the authors of those amendments never considered, to achieve protections for groups far outside the scope of the original intent and ultimately the history of the rulings that led to “Brown.”
I don’t think there is more than a parenthetical and temporal relationship between A. Philip Randolph’s extremely political Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters agitation and the extremely legally based assault on Plessy.
I look at that campign that has at it’s roots two lines that converged. The first being “The Garland Fund” leading to the “Margold Report” which not only outlined the broad general strategy to be used to tear down Plessy, but also urged the implementation of that assault. The second was the existence of Charles Houston, who, after re-invigorating Howard Law School, recruiting the cadre of young people who would fight the legal baltles for 2 decades, recommending Nathan Margold to the NAACP in order to design the strategy, eventually was recruited by Walter White to lead the LDF. It is the transection of those two lines of events, which I believe, set into motion the events that led to end of Jim Crow.
All in all, I think we agree on almost everything and disagree on superficial events and their relative importance, but agree philosophically to a high degree.
It’s always good to be challenged to re-consider long held beliefs.
Thanks.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Please excuse the belated response, and thanks for the responses all.
Mizzo, it doesn’t have to be a young Ralph Wiley. I just used “young” to mirror the time of Wiley’s hiring first by SI after the Oakland Tribune as opposed to a 40-something Wiley that ESPN hired in his latter years. My take on ESPN today is that his talent might have been a secondary commodity to his “vast readership”. I ask the question because ESPN is a vastly different animal then it used to be.
“It’s all about advancing thought for me personally.”
“Advancing thought” is a good way to put it.
—————
“The problem they face is that everyone is either a former player or a journalism major. This means no one has any content knowledge beyond the discipline of “the job.”
T3, Never quite thought of it that way, but that seems to make sense.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:31 am
On Charles Houston: I think we had this discussion kev, but I never heard of him until I was assigned to read Richard Kluger’s “Simple Justice” by a professor. I learned as much from that book as any other, and it covered Houston’s contributions in painstaking detail. The funny thing is that i have really never read about him in another book besides a name drop. Why his legacy has not survived history is unknown to me. Is he featured in any docs or movies? Was it that he was never properly given credit in the first place? Or was it that Thurgood Marshall was given the loion’s share of the “legal movement” credit like MLK did for CRM?
On MLK and greatest leader list debate: This discussion has a sports feel to it with MLK’s use of “the media” taking the place of today’s athlete taking advantage of “better training and medicine”. If this is the case, then we might have to wonder what Marcus Garvey could have done had he had videotape of the huge crowds that he drew as well as video of the oppressive nature of the 1920s…