Repeat After Me: Why Haven’t the Philadelphia Eagles Front Office Given Donovan McNabb Talented Receivers?
(AP)
Donovan McNabb’s 2008 stats: 333 completions, 550 attempts, 3741 yards, 60.5 %, 21 tds, 11 interceptions for an 85.3 rating.
I bet you think these numbers are low huh?
These stats compare favorably with most successful qb’s in the league. Of the quarterbacks with a higher percentage or more touchdowns in less attempts, there is a glaring (sometimes two, three or eight) distinction…a number one receiver, a top tier tight end and a balanced offensive scheme.
As Donovan McNabb and the Philadelphia Eagles life support stare the hated Dallas Cowboys and the only receiver their beleaguered quarterback has ever had in the face, an obvious question must be asked…again:
Why hasn’t Donovan been given talented receivers like so many of his peers?
Why did the Philadelphia organization rely on his top flight all around talent and also insultingly break down one of the most feared threats the league has seen since Marshall Faulk–and Tiki Barber more recently–in Brian Westbrook? When Brian signed, everyone knew he couldn’t do it alone physically and ultimately would end up crawling around the locker room after games just to get in the tub and let out a sigh of relief. Now that the chickens have come home to roost, everyone is looking for a scapegoat in one of the best quarterbacks of his era?
Check the winning percentage, the interception to pass ratio (NFL best all time), the yards and the touchdown passes.
Yeah Donovan has had some bad moments but hasn’t every quarterback who has ever lined up under center? Why are his bad times highlighted when his peers similar moments been given the blind eye?
Donovan McNabb is Warren Moon.
Andy Reid is the Mad Hatter and needs to consider dropping one of his hats he’s clumsily juggled if nothing more for the sake of McNabb’s legacy.
Andy he is ya mans right?
Have not the two of you grown together from NFL infancy?
You sure?
Breakdown…
Something for the dome one time…
There are no Black quarterbacks who deserve merit without constant career diminishing and objectifying criticism? After all, hasn’t the quarterback pantheon become a meritocracy?
When Black quarterbacks are given talent, they usually have thrived (Randall in ‘98, Culpepper with Moss, McNabb with Owens. All went to at least the NFC Championship game).
Can Black children have one soul model quarterback for their grandchildren just to advance the mental frame?
I’ll say again what I’ve said many times before. Black writers please stand up. If you don’t write it, who will? It’s not up to anyone else. There were actually questions whether Warren Moon deserved to be enshrined in the Hall of Fame. What is McNabb’s legacy?
Something for the dome two times…
Does McNabb’s legacy compare to that of Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Steve Young, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw? Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Joe Theisman, Joe Montana or John Elway?
If not, who and why not?
In twenty years time you will be able to mention the relevant targets of these great quarterbacks. How many of McNabb’s will you name? Those above who do have rings have them because of the sum of their team parts. None of them did it alone.
Why is McNabb expected to do it alone (not discounting Westbrook or the Eagles defense during his tenure)?
Seems to me, the Eagles organization has relied on his talent a little too much. Do they want to pay a receiver? What’s the deal? This is insulting.
Is it about the athleticism? Player heads think they can get by because he befuddles defenses with his legs? I’m at a loss here. It’s the same thing year in and year out.
He has the arm. He has the intelligence. He has the mobility. Don’t give me that Donovan can’t read defenses characterization reserved for so many Black quarterbacks in the past.
Donovan McNabb is sui generis in this time and space because of his ability to put together a decent career with minimal talent surrounding his above average skills.
You must question Donovan’s demotion on national television. Could the Eagles brass have been making a statement by benching Donovan so unceremoniously just to publicly slam the writing on the wall…driving home the imminent off season change and making it more palatable nationally?
The media here wants transition in part because it gives them something to write about after all the disrespect some have written of McNabb over the years–despite the front office incompetence. They’ve been calling for his head most of Donovan’s tenure. A tenure that includes 4 consecutive NFC Conference Championship appearances and one Super Bowl visit. Once again it’s all about yellow journalism because like the dismissal of Mo Cheeks (except for the notable exceptions of Chris Murray and James Beale), there seems to never be a plan after the firing.
It’s like crack sprinkled on cheese…the rats are still gonna eat despite the addiction it carries.
Some here just write to write…standing on the backs of others just to get the cheese.
What is your plan Philadelphia media?
I’m listening….
Crickets…
Thought so.
Kevin Kolb is not the answer. He was a Philly fan darling during McNabb’s very obvious struggles but has struggled himself when given the opportunity to show his wares and subsequently booed unmercifully…slamming his chin strap away and walking off the field after yet another bad interception.
So who do you bring in to “right the ship”? Brett Favre? Uh…Tim Tebow? Hell, Joe Montana or the Donovan McNabb hater Ron Jaworski?
Absurd.
Jeff Garcia was successful here while McNabb was injured because Andy Reid ran the ball.
So would you rather the Eagles be ushered into yet another dark age just because you don’t see this team going anywhere despite the Eagles being the third most consistent NFL team in McNabb’s era?
What is the plan?
I must admit Donovan has had the support of the fans at Lincoln Financial Field during the last two home games. Outside the stadium is another thing. Covering them both, Donovan was never booed because the Eagles finally ran a balanced offense. This was somewhat surprising considering the tone of the columns here in Philly and despite his stats, you’d think Donovan was the sorriest quarterback in the league. In the last two wins, the Eagles have ran the ball during 45 and 41% of the plays respectively (Check the record). Westbrook sacrificed the rest of his season just by suiting up. He has no legs! Check the tape and see for yourself when he’s caught the ball in space and attempted to find an opening after the first level. He’s strictly north and south and that’s not his game. If you’ve noticed, Westbrook has been successful lately because the defense has lost him behind the offensive linemen.
(AP Photo/Pablo Martinez Monsivais)
I have a new found respect for Brian because he’s a football field soldier. You wouldn’t know this if you don’t see if for yourself inside the Eagles locker room when he’s hobbling around.
Yes, in the NFL, injuries are commonplace, but the teams who have the most depth this time of year usually are the most successful.
Bring in the receivers, a full back and please give Correll Buckhalter more chances.
Please?
In 466 career attempts, Buckhalter is averaging 4.6 yards a carry and also 10.5 yards per catch.
Why isn’t he playing?
This is something even the casual fan has understood for quite some time. When the Eagles have a more versatile offense, they win. They have become pedestrian and predictable otherwise because there is no one to move the chains when the Eagles absolutely need a game changing moment. The Eagles have no possession receiver. They have guys who can do some damage when their limited skills are combined with others, but no number one threats that intimidate. They have no one who commands a double to open the field and free up a tight end, leave a running back open in the flat or who takes away the safety help over the top. DeSean Jackson has vast potential, but we have to consider he is a first year player. Reggie Brown doesn’t have enough heart in my opinion and neither does LJ Smith or Greg Lewis. I don’t see any fighting for extra yards when it is a necessity to fight for your playoff lives because cats are fearful of yet another visit to the training room. Man up! If not for yourself, then do it for the quarterback who has caught mad wreck the last ten years. There is no sense of urgency by anyone besides Jackson (no one thought he would be this good) and Westbrook on offense. Yes, Jackson missed two big catches Donovan put right on the money this past Sunday, but at least there is effort and a will to win. It would be ludicrous to blame DeSean for the Eagles lost to the Redskins. If you have to depend on a rookie (only in NFL age only) in crucial moments there are major problems.
The Eagles offensive line has done its job and kept pressure off Donovan, but after making his progressions back and forth, it’s obvious Donovan finds no separation.
This has all been said before.
Coming into the season everyone was clamoring for Anquan Boldin, or Larry Fitzgerald, or Chad Ocho Cinco or Roy Williams or Tony Gonzalez or Lorenzo Neal.
Again, crickets…
Lets take a stroll around the league and highlight who has what just to prove a point. Don’t be dumb people because there is a constant here besides the presence of receiving threats:
Phillip Rivers: Antonio Gates, Vincent Jackson, Chris Chambers and LaDanian Tomlinson.
Tony Romo: Obviously Terrell Owens, Patrick Crayton, Roy Williams and Jason Whitten. Whitten gets open because of Owens. Don’t get it twisted and play that ridiculous media game that Whitten is more important than T.O.
Matt Cassel: Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Ben Watson and when the game is on the line? Kevin Faulk to the rescue.
Kurt Warner: Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald and Steve Breaston. He’s always had a nice receiving corps, but hasn’t won anything of merit since 2000. Uh…good story though…I guess.
Matt Ryan: Roddy White, Michael Jenkins and Michael Tuner–probably the best free agent pick up in the NFL this season.
Jake Delhomme: Steve Smith, Muhsin Muhammad and a two headed running back monster.
Jay Cutler: Brandon Marshall, Eddie Royal, Brandon Stokley and omnipresent interchangeable parts in the running game.
Joe Flacco: Derrick Mason, Todd Heap and again a running game.
Ben Roethlisberger: Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Nate Washington, the young boy Limas Sweed and despite injuries this season, just enough of a running game to take time off the clock.
Peyton Manning: Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, Anthony Gonzalez and of course a running game.
Drew Brees: Marques Colston and a bunch of receivers who fit perfectly in the Saints offensive scheme, but even though Brees is lauded around the league, what has he done? Where’s the national media heat on the Saints?
Sage Rosenfels: Andre Johnson and Steve Slaton. AJ might be the best receiver in the league.
Chad Pennington: Ted Ginn Jr., a host of capable receivers, Ricky Williams, Ronnie Brown and of course the Wildcat.
Kerry Collins: A running game with rookie star Chris Johnson and bruising LenDale White…setting up the dink and dunk to Bo Scaife.
Jeff Garcia: The probable Comeback Player of the Year in Antonio Bryant and a cagey versatile veteran in Warrick Dunn.
Brett Favre: Jerricho Cotchery, Laveranues Coles, Thomas Jones and Leon Washington.
Eli Manning: Are you serious?
Do Eagles receivers compare with any of the aforementioned?
The Eagles have less talent than any NFL contender except for maybe the Chicago Bears.
So…uh…what are you expecting?
Why does Donovan McNabb face the constant fire of media and fan scrutiny while those responsible just get their red hair singed?
Having play makers gives a quarterback comfort and it’s to Donovan McNabb’s credit he’s been able to put up great career numbers despite the lack of overall talent. It must be repeated over and over again the one year he had a number one receiver the Eagles went to the Super Bowl and barely lost to the Pats. Think back to all the playoff losses and there is one glaring weakness, the lack of players who put fear in an opposing defense when the game is on the line in the fourth quarter.
Stop Westbrook and McNabb and you defeat the Eagles.
Don’t give me it’s complicated. Don’t give me others have been successful with less because in the history of the league, there have been very few quarterbacks who won the Super Bowl without the luxury of a number one receiver. Check it. I bet you can count them on one hand. I did.
So now that the season has come to yet another fan disappointment, the question once again has to be asked:
Why haven’t the Philadelphia Eagles front office given Donovan McNabb receivers?
Will the Eagles front office ever give a sufficient answer?
Don’t bet on it.
(AP)
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I think it’s time for Donovan to leave Philly. As long as the current administration is there, the more things will remain the same. He’s still got a good 5 or 6 years left to make a run for a ring. Forget the loyalty because they Eagles aren’t being loyal to him. We see how loyalty almost cost Kevin Garnett a ring to solidify his career. Donovan needs to make that change as well. Get out of Philly while you’re still an elite QB.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:06 pm
GN with all due respect, that’s not the point I’m making. The question is why haven’t they surrounded him with talent? It’s a question worth asking for the sake of history when a similar talent comes along.
December 23rd, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Mizz,
I understand that it’s not the point you’re making. As a matter of fact, nearly everyone who blogs here have been making those very same points for years. But there comes a time when a player has to move on and look out for his best interest when the ownership is not looking out for the team’s best interest.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:03 pm
It is the most inexplicable thing that I have ever seen. Pairing a top-flight receiver with an elite QB is mission #1 for any GM — any rookie GM. I was literally yelling at my TV screen about this very thing as Desean Jackson dropped thos bombs. It was a metaphor for his entire career. After Peyton was signed, they locked up Marvin Harrison long-term. They made sure of it. And look at all the other examples you mentioned.
During the Terrell Owens year he had a:
64% Completion %
104.7 Passer rating
This could have been EVERY year of his career. It is almost tragic. I really can’t think of another player whose management has let them down more. I was always upset that the Knicks never got Ewing his Pippen (or a great PG that complements a great center) but at least they gave him many #3’s. Kevin Garnett at Minny comes to mind, but at least they had the excuse of losing all those draft picks in the Joe Smith under-the-table signing. And even KG gets a happy ending.
The incredible thing about McNabb is not that they didn’t get him that elite receiver (besides T.O.), it is that they didn’t even get him a “good” one through most of his career. No Jerry Rice OR John Taylor. No Marvin Harrison OR Reggie Wayne. No Mark Clayton OR Mark Duper.
No — he gets Freddie Mitchell.
I have absolutely no good answer to your question. It is a tragedy of sports management. And what kills me the most is that T.O. plays the Super Bowl on a broken legs, threatens his entire career, and can’t be rewarded with a simple extension by management. If he was, there would be no drama afterwards — and the eagles might have a couple of rings right now. if jerry jones were the Eagles owner, T.O. would still be there.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:05 pm
It’s really quite simple Mizzo. You know how the media loves to throw around the term “he makes the guys around him better”? That’s the gift and the curse for McNabb. He’s never had great receivers, but he knew how to put them in position to make plays. It’s no different than a great point guard getting the ball to a teammate in his sweet spot. McNabb never tried to make his receivers do more than they were capable of so it made them look good. We all know the Freddie Mitchell’s of the world weren’t great, but for a game or two here and there McNabb made him and others look way better than they are. I think having the type of success he had blinded the organization and they really started to believe he could win with just about anyone and they carried on about their business thinking just that. Aside from the lack of talent, the play calling costs them plenty of wins too, but that’s another story for another day.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:10 pm
For me, the reason is simple — The Eagles management don’t know what the hell they’re doing, which is why McNabb should bounce.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:14 pm
GN I know most of us have screamed the question since this blog has been in existence, but I wanted to personally put my feelings into words just for the cause simply out of predictable annual frustration.
I can’t settle for a McNabb needs to leave town ending. I don’t want another Malone/Cheeks/Barkley/Watters/Cunningham/Iverson/Cheeks ending.
It doesn’t guarantee a championship.
Tired of the hypothetical athlete divorce cry here so I wanted to shake things up a bit in hopes my Philly peers might take a peek.
December 23rd, 2008 at 1:36 pm
I hear you man…but do you honestly think that the Eagles’ organization are REALLY committed to winning? You and I both know that if they were, they would’ve put some weapons around him by now. This is his 10th season, and he’s only had 1 full year of having a great WR to throw to. That’s ridiculous.
I understand your loyalty to the Eagles but as I said earlier, the more the organization stays the same, the results will be the same every year. It all starts at the top…and trickles down. The Eagles’ need a GM who understands the game; someone who knows how to construct a team, piece by piece and player by player. If they’re not willing to do that, then my man doesn’t need to be there on that sinking ship.
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:28 pm
I don’t have an answer either, but I have a solution (that unfortunately won’t happen. Keep McNabb and GET RID OF ANDY REID. He’s run this team into the ground with his idiotic obessions: drafting O-linemen every year, trading out of the first round and passing every down even when it’s not working. It’s time for him to go. McNabb deserves better- better receivers and a better coach. This team has the talent, but the leadership is dragging them down.
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
Man Mizzo I had a tight post before this but it got messed up and I couldn’t send it.
Anyway the thing is that the Eagles (Reid & Lurie) have never cared about putting talent around Mcnabb. But sadly this is an issue alot of times for black QBs in the NFL.
IMO no white QB with Mcnabbs talent would have ever had so little talent placed around him. Think about this….Todd Pinkston (from my Alma Mater) is the best WR that Mcnabb has played with (outside of TO).
They have been setting this brotha up for failure for years. Except Mcnabbs arms and Legs were able to bail out Reids crappy play calling and the crappy Wrs/running game (but always took the blame when they lost…never any blame on managment and Reid). Now that he is older and not able to move around (running for 100 yards or more in a game) like he once was the Team still won’t get him more talent. Every QB as they get older needs more talent. Not the whole offense put on them like they are 25.
Then you have these ignorant and bigoted Eagle fans who say that Mcnabb has to run since Reid isn’t producing a running game. This is ignorant what 32 year old (with a bad knee and leg injuries) QB is a intrical part of the running game. Shoot thats what the RB is for.
Now Mizzo this is a team that traded their 1st round pick to their division rivals (cowboys). In which the cowboys drafted a pass rusher to chase Mcnabb. What kind of ignorance is this?
This is a team that passed over Steven Jackson to draft a guard who was battling depression and didn’t want to play. Now he has a bad back that could be career ending.
Yet this year Washington drafted WR after WR to surround their QB with talent. The steelers drafted a WR and a running back for big ben. The Giants have 3 decent RBs, picked up plax when he left the steelers. Look at Caroline they have drafted WR after WR for their avg. golden boy QB. They have drafted 2 good RBs.
Only thing that Mcnabb got was a WR this year and a DT playing FB. Dang so he goes on his blog and asks for playmakers and gets a WR and a DT at FB. D@mn what would have happened if he asked for nothing??
I often have said that Mcnabb is this generations Elway. But when you compare the talent level that Elway had before Terrel Davis there is no comparison. Elway had more talent and better coaching.
Think about it, for years Elway had Rbs like Humprey, Gaston Green, Sammy Winder and a FB like Steve Sewell. Dan Reeves actually committed to the run. So that the whole offense wouldn’t be on Elway’s shoulders.
He11 Mcnabb hasn’t even had a decent FB since Turner.
This eagles team is on some @ss backwards sh&^. You have a team that passes 70% plus which is suicidal. Then you have crappy WR but pass 70% of the time. You don’t draft worth crap on offense but you play in one of the most offensively talented division in football. You have a scat back as your featured back and you have a DT playing FB.
Man these eagles have no intent to win. I wish Eagle fans would realize this.
Mcnabbs time as an Eagle is like a mix between Warren Moon’s time in Houston with the pass happy offense minus the WRs and RBs. But its also a mix Cunningham’s years in Philly in which he had no running game.
Everything is backwards (Like Heltah Skeltah says in their new CD).
Watching the eagles is like living in some 5th dimension Bizarro world where everything is upside down. Up is down, left is right…and ignorance is intelligence.
Yeap it is Bizzaro world and Reid & Lurie are the Ringleaders.
December 23rd, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Also brotha Mizzo don’t forget that Garcia had Graham before he went down.
Plus he has 3 very good WRs and they are veterans.
Another note Mizzo do you know that Mcnabb is on pace to not only throw for 4,000 yards but alo have 580 attempts.
With crappy WRs and crappy play calling. Man that just shows you how great he is. Remember when fools swore he couldn’t pass and never be a pocket QB….which was bogus he only ran because he had to buy time for the WRs.
I have to say even though I have followed the Eagles since I was a kid watching Cunningham. I hope that Mcnabb leaves and goes to teh Vikings. Yeah for selfish reasons I want him to go to teh bears. But for him and what it means for your black QBs all over. I want him to go to the vikings so that he can win a championship.
Please Mcnabb force a trade or release. You should have done it last year. The eagles will run you into the ground…..you are nothing more then a scapegoat for Reids lack of coaching ability and Luire’s greed.
Do it Mcnabb you will thank yourself win you are going to the playoffs next year and the Kolb era is leading the eagles to a 3-13 season.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:50 pm
The Eagles front office doesn’t care about winning. They only care about money and they are making plenty off the Eagles fan base.
December 23rd, 2008 at 4:51 pm
I think some additional consideration has to be put into the conversation. I cannot blast the Eagles for the fact that Freddie Mitchell was a mediocre (or otherwise shitty) wide receiver. Further, I’m still not sure that I am willing to conclusively state that Black QBs have less WR support than similarly talented white QBs (At least not in this case.). A big part of the reason, for me, is that the position of WR is one of the most difficult to draft. Look around the league: its chock full of the most talented, hardest working cats in the league. Who has worked harder to make themselves into elite players than Terrell Owens, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Torry Holt, TJ Houshmandzadeh, Derrick Mason and Hines Ward? Seriously. You’d be hard pressed to find another position where guys have a stronger work ethic — and yet, the position is considered to be full of nothing but part-time primadonnas who loaf for a living.
Let’s take a look at the draft the year that Freddie Mitchell was drafted. It was 2001. 6 receivers came off the board in the first round. Mitchell was the 5th receiver chosen — five slots before Reggie Wayne (not an instant success in Indianapolis, lest we forget there were plenty of second thoughts about the wisdom of that pick). The receivers taken before Fred X were David Terrell (BUST), Koren Robinson (Star-BUST-Star-BUST), Rod Gardner (UNDERPERFORM), and Santana Moss (Ka-Boom). You could even argue that Moss has underperformed since he’s only had 2 1,000 yd seasons and only one of those was with the franchise that drafted him.
You could blame the Eagles for having poor scouts. You could blame the Eagles for a great many things, but the receivers they didn’t take in that draft include Chris Chambers, Steve Smith, Chad Johnson and TJ Houshmazilli. Fred X was at UCLA — he performed in big games against big competition. He was widely deemed to be better than both Oregon State receivers — and every scout had a chance to see all 3 of them. Smith was at Utah and still didn’t get under everyone’s radar. Chambers played in the Big 10 at Wisconsin. I simply don’t think that the drafting of Fred X can be used against the Eagles. Its simply a miss. I also don’t think that the excellence of Steve Smith or Chad and TJ can be used as an example of franchises providing support for white QBs. I believe those are examples of Black folk willing to seriously, seriously, seriously GRIND. The credit goes to the receivers, not the franchises. If Chad and TJ flamed out chasing hootchies around the Queen City with Chris Henry, what would be said then? Not much.
Beyond the question of Fred X, what else have the Eagles done to procure quality wide receivers.
They acquired the overall #1 Wide Receiver selected in the 2002 draft — Donte Stallworth after his career best year in New Orleans. Right?
– Now, I don’t love Stallworth (and haven’t loved any Tennessee receiver since Anthony Miller/Carl Pickens — and that means YOU Peerless Price, Joey Kent, Bobby Meachem, yadda, yadda, yadda), but he was on the roster. He averaged 19 yds/catch. He got injured. He’s gone.
They acquired Kevin Curtis one year removed from his career best year with the Rams. Right?? Curtis, ideally, could have been a Welker-esque slot guy with wheels who would open up seams in the offense. He’s been injured just a bit, though, as well.
They acquired a pass catching tight end with skills in LJ Smith. Right? He’s been a bit banged up as well. When he’s on, though, he’s as good at pass catching as anyone short of Gates and Gonzalez. Agreed?
In 2003, they tabbed a 6′4″, 215lb receiver with tremendous promise out of UVa in Billy McMullen. He was a highly regarded 3rd round pick. He wasn’t blazing fast — but didn’t need to be given who was on the roster at the time. He was taken just after the Rams took Curtis and before the Rams took Shaun McDonald; the Niners took Brandon Lloyd (not so much!); the Bears took Justin Gage (bust for them; ok for Titans). The most productive receiver taken in that draft after McMullen? Kevin Walter (Eastern Michigan, 7th Round) - by the New York Giants. He’s productive for the Texans and I hope he’s not used as an example of the Texans going all out for white guys like Matt Schaub. McMullen was a miss. It happens.
As a related point, the Eagles went for Jerome McDougle #1 in that year and LJ Smith #2. Who did they miss out at WR? Since they took McDougle at #15 and had a need, its fair to say that the price for Charles Rogers (#1) and Andre Johnson (#3) was too steep. So what did they forego by trying to get a Miami DE who didn’t pan out? Bryant Johnson, Taylor Jacobs, Bethel Johnson, Anquan Boldin (2nd round - 6th WR taken, 54th overall), Tyrone Calico, Kelley “The Body” Washington (another Tennessee flame out!) and Nate Burleson. Aside from Boldin (WORK ETHIC guy, not a gift to white QB) and Burleson (oft-injured, several teams), the Eagles didn’t miss much. The next guy taken after Burleson was Kevin Curtis. He’s on the Eagles now. The next guy taken was McMullen.
Pinkston, to my mind, was a terrible draft, but of the guys selected later in the draft (and there were MANY), only 2 were better than Stinkston (Laveranues Coles — a WORK ETHIC guy and not a gift to a white QB; and Darrell Jackson — a guy whom I’ve never liked because of those extensions at the ends of his arms that he persists in calling hands.)
Wiki on Pinkston:
Pinkston was no star, but the Eagles very likely could not have done much better during that season. The only player taken before him with substantially better production is suspended for the year after shooting himself in the leg. I will say, though, that when they down in Tallahassee scouting Corey Simon, they should have walked over to the offense and checked out Coles. Maybe they knew the deal about his childhood, but not about his CHARACTER and were scared off. Who knows.
In 2005, the Eagles took a guy that has also been injured, but was supposed to represent a sound pick. He played in a solid program with a good, creative coordinator. He ran routes over the middle and had decent hands. Reggie Brown — another miss so far, but as countless other picks have demonstrated, its too early to close the book on this guy. Who was drafted before Brown? Braylon. Nice…sort of. Troy Williamson. Bust? Mike Williams. Bust? Matt “Cocaine Jones” Jones. Mark Clayton - inappropriately used in Baltimore — would probably thrive in Philly. Roddy White. That’s the list. More misses than hits — again. Roddy White was supposed to a gift for Michael Vick. Remember?
In the first round, the Eagles drafted to fill a need on the d-line and snatched Mike Patterson at #31. Brown was the next receiver taken. No receiver taken after that has become a reliable, every down performer at the position.
Only the Lions are so sound across the board that they can draft WRs with high picks every year. The Eagles didn’t go that route in ‘06 or ‘07. In ‘08, they tabbed the 7th WR taken - DJ. He’s had a few bumps along the way, but for the most part, he’s a keeper. He’s outperformed the rest of the draft class — so that’s a win.
—————————————————————
I think when you factor in some of the randomness that defines professional football, the Eagles have made attempts to have solid WRs around McNabb — but they’ve simply missed. They expended high draft picks (Mitchell, Brown, Jackson, Pinkston). They’ve traded for guys coming off of career years while still in their prime (Stallworth, Curtis). They’ve had some success with later round picks (Avant). They’ve brought in 1 big name free agent (Owens). They’ve kept pass catching tight ends (Chad Lewis, LJ Smith, Celek). They’ve attempted to keep a talented offensive line in place.
The Eagles took risks on Stallworth and Owens that were mitigated by the contract terms. If they were willing to pay the price for Owens all of this would be moot — just as it would if Fred X were 10% as good as Reggie Wayne. Which begs the question for me (since I honestly don’t know): Has Donovan gone out of his way to forge chemistry and a seamless operation with his receivers?
What they haven’t done is establish an offense based on a power runner to ease the burden of uncertainty in the passing game. Striking gold with wide receivers is like finding a needle in a haystack. The list of 1st and 2nd round busts is long. And there are guys like Joe Horn, Hines Ward, Kevin Walter and TJ who worked and worked and worked to forge themselves into players in this league. The Eagles don’t bear the mark of hot pressed iron in their receiving corps. Until they do, I believe the failure may not be rooted in a lack of effort, but in a lack of skill. Moreover, I don’t deem “race” to be a factor — not yet.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:02 pm
Mizzo:
This is an EXCELLENT post of yours. I wanted to weigh in and post, but the comments are being held up. I posted at my blog. Here’s the link for the interested. (Please post your response here, though. This is Mizzo’s joint. I’m just along for the ride.)
BTW — I disagree with you — sort of, but I definitely appreciate the BST that went into this one.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
As a 21 year Eagles fan let me say that i agree with this post 110 percent but i’m so tired of talking about it. I just want McNabb to go to a contender (vikes, bears, etc) and get a ring with them. Eagles brass did him dirty.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Khalid thanks for commenting but I can’t give up bruh. Something is telling me not to. As a writer, I remain objective but as a fan…
getting your heart ripped out year in and year out is not cool but as a father of a talented high school quarterback I have to stick to my guns and take it even though it seems crazy right now.
This is what I love about my personal writing evolution. It ain’t just about me. Seeing my kids grow into humbled peer superstars keeps me grounded and that sense flows through my fingers onto the screen.
Damn right I want to see Donovan win a ring, but not by quitting on what he’s started.
I wouldn’t be a father to my children (in an athletic sense, get it right and notice the difference) if I was cool with Triple Five Soul bouncing.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:22 pm
I apologize for the double post. I’ll just say simply that the Eagles have dedicated FAR MORE effort to putting quality receivers around McNabb than they’ve been given credit for. I believe I’ve made a strong case on my blog — read if time or interest permit.
I believe, like Origin, that the Eagles have dedicated FAR LESS effort to pairing McNabb with a high-quality every down running back — the “thing” that really preserves QBs and drives championships. Check this link:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=3700&type=team
The list of RB’s drafted by the Eagles speaks for itself. Wilbur Montgomery was a Sixth Round Draft Pick in 1977! How many #1’s since his wheels came off in ‘85? 1 - Keith Byars (1986).
That’s it. Just 1. That was 22 years ago — and folks wonder why Donovan and Randall were never able to get this team over the top of the hill. Drafting a #1 doesn’t guarantee a SB victory, but drafting a complete back who plays like a #1 is a damned good start.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Yes, this goes without saying but it’s not just about a running back. They also need a fullback. That’s why I highlighted Lorenzo Neal.
What about the off season?
In Philly, there are few and far between free agent superstars brought into town.
That really sucks.
Like you’ve very well stated, the Eagles are all over the place regarding the draft. I thought Agib Talib was a good prospect the Eagles passed over. I thought his size and athleticism would eventually match up with the big receivers in the division…but they picked elsewhere. Like Calandra says, Reid has a penchant for drafting offensive linemen but damnit man get it together! There’s all kinds of talent that’s slipped by.
I understand what you say about the running game but I don’t agree they’ve fully scouted the receivers they’ve picked.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Mizzo,
I was asking this when they failed to go after Tony Gonzalez just before the trade deadline. Imagine what McNabb could do with Fitzgerald and Anquan.
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
P.S.
I think Desean will be a very good receiver in this league, but he should be the third receiver at this point in his career, not the alpha dog. And what the f*ck is an Avant?
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I think the bottom line view of my larger post is that great receivers are MADE — in the league. They are only very, very rarely DRAFTED out of college. That’s why so many teams get it so wrong at this position. The Eagles are one of those teams. Running backs are much easier to draft out of college — and so, there is even less reason (aside from being cheap) for drafting a high-quality runner out of college.
————-
I think scouting of wide receivers may be their biggest failing, but they’re not alone. The piece I wrote goes through some of the hits and misses at this position. Its easier said than done.
http://temple3.wordpress.com/2008/12/23/who-lovin-donovan-mcnabb/
Still, it bears repeating that the Eagles added the 1st receiver off the board in the 2002 draft when they added Stallworth. They added a guy with 1st round talent in DeSean Jackson. They went after highly regarded free agents in bringing in Owens, Stallworth and Curtis. They drafted highly regarded guys in solid programs (UCLA and Georgia) in Fred X and Reggie Brown. They’ve drafted well-regarded mid-rounders from solid programs (McMullen, Avant). They’ve gone off the beaten path for guys who made big plays but had questionable guts (Pinkston, Thrash). They’ve kept pass-catching TEs in the offense for more than 10 years (Lewis, Smith, Celek).
Check out my post to see what the alternatives would have been. Conversely, look at all the elite running backs they’ve passed up since drafting Byars in 1986. The levels of effort to procure a standout receiver is simply far and above what they’ve done with respect to the running game. Philly is the home of the small, cut rate, inexpensive running back: Charlie Garner, Westbrook, Staley, Moats, and on and on.
It’s also home to the crappy wide receiver scout — but on the passing side, they can at least say (as often as not), “So what would you have done smart guy?”
—–
Check out who the Titans have drafted at the position since 1998. Its like a funeral. http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=2100&type=team
December 23rd, 2008 at 5:59 pm
An Avant is exactly what a Boldin was to a lot of scouts coming out of college. Boldin has some injruy problems, but wasn’t the fastest guy in the world (though he might have been the strongest). He was willing to run over the middle and make catches — especially on 3rd down. He made himself into an elite receiver. He was a prolific HS QB and even played QB in his last bowl game at FSU.
Avant is not as physically gifted — it seems, but if he spent as much time in the gym as Anquan — who knows. Avant is exactly the type of receiver the Eagles have overlooked and underutilized to their detriment. He’s not perfect, but he would have run that damn route IN THE ENDZONE.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Temple3:
Oh. The answer I was looking for was: “Not as good as a Crayton.”
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:17 pm
origin -
Definitely don’t want to see D. McNabb in Minnesota. That would probably mean the release of one black qb (Tavaris Jackson), for another. Can’t have too many of those black qb’s on the squad, you know. I’ve always heard that Chicago would have some interest in him, but that only works if they upgrade their WR corps.
The Eagles management has definitely let him down. No way after being in the league ten years, should he EVER be without an elite receiver. In one measure, McNabb has been the best qb over the last ten years in the league. He wins more with less, than anybody. Even the first year with T.O., T.O. was hurt for the last few games and the playoffs. D. McNabb got them to the Super Bowl with subpar receivers. Also, would it kill them to get a bigger back to back up Westbrook? Since McNabb has been there, I think Deuce Staley has been their biggest back.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Temple3,
I read “Who’s Lovin Donovan McNabb”. Nice work. You make a very compelling argument concerning how difficult it is to predict the productivity of WRs entering the draft. But I don’t think you give enough importance to the Eagles’ failure to trade for/ sign elite free agent wide receivers. Sure, you mention Stallworth and Curtis, but we all know that only one elite receiver has ever played with McNabb. How different would Philly’s season had been if they had done exactly what Dallas did: overpay for Roy Williams. Or Tony Gonzalez. Sure, that approach could backfire, but it’s worth the risk, and the Eagles are seemingly unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade that would provide McNabb with an elite receiver. I think that’s foolhardy.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:29 pm
LOL!!! Tariq. No question.
I totally agree with Mizzo that the scouting has been the issue for the Eagles. When you look around, though, great receivers are usually made somewhere between their first and third years in the league. Guys have to figure out how to eat and sleep. They have to figure out how to control their movements before the snap — how to get off the line — how to break off routes — how to read blitzes and run the right hot route. A few of them even figure out how to throw solid blocks downfield. Very few of them actually show the types of skills they’ll use in the NFL while in college. For a team whose pre-Owens ring of WRs worth mentioning consisted entirely of Harold Carmichael and Mike Quick, I’d say the Eagles may not only had bad scouts, but they may not actually know anybody who knows anybody who knows anybody who knows a good scout. It could be THAT bad.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
This is a tough situation. I buy Temple3’s explanation, partly, that it is tough to draft a wide receiver. But I can’t believe that drafting a decent running back in the NFL is that hard. Why won’t Andy Reid commit to the run? When he commits to the run when Donovan gets hurt, the team always does much better. It’s just a very frustrating situation. I might add, though, that Marino in the late stages of his career seems like a fair comparison. After that early Super Bowl, it seems like he never had good receiving talent or a real running game.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Temple3,
I agree. That’s why, if you don’t know how to scout one, get one through trades or free agency. And you don’t have to get Randy Moss for a fourth-round pick or anything genius like that. OVERPAY for someone who’s PRETTY GOOD, not necessarily great.
December 23rd, 2008 at 6:36 pm
I mean, the bottom line is: McNabb + Elite Receiver = SuperBowl.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:05 pm
Tariq. What I’m saying is that even that is pretty hard because that elite receiver will be a pricey free agent. They did it with Owens. It worked, then the owners didn’t want to pay.
They tried it with Stallworth. It didn’t work. He was #1 overall and supposed to be THE BOMB.
They tried it with Kevin Curtis. It didn’t work.
They should go for Boldin. It might work.
Even after you bring the guy in, both the receiver and the QB have to be healthy. McNabb is often injured. Receivers are often injured. Dominance is derived from chemistry and reps in the passing game. I don’t know that he’s had much chance to get there with most of these players.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:18 pm
Good points ladies and gentalmen.
“Has Donovan gone out of his way to forge chemistry and a seamless operation with his receivers?”
Yes he has Temple. Every year he pays to have his WRs come out to Arizona in the off season and he works out with them in order to build chemistry.
After Vince youngs rookie season he began to do the same.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Another thing teh curtis thing was ignorant. They took a slot WR and tried to make him a number 1 WR that doesn’t work. The last person I can remember it working with is Rany Moss. He was the slot (3rd WR) next to Jake Reed and Chris Carter.
Brotha Temple you might not be able to pin the lack of WRs on black QBs. But you can certainly Pin the lack of overall offensive support often given to black QBs.
D@MN where is Dennis Green when you need him. He made sure his QBs were surrounded with talent no matter what.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Also Temple the eagles had stallworth for one year because they didn’t want to pay him.
Now even you agree that there are many teams in professional sports that aren’t really trying to win. Well the Eagles are one of them.
I have been saying this about the eagles and most the teams in Philly since I was a kid.
You can add chicago teams to the mix too.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Oh and the WR is one part.
How can one explain the constant and I mean constant ignorance of not darfting a WR.
And as far as the eagles spending pick on WRs I still think they aren’t trying. Check this out they are a freaking passing team a team that passes at a 70% clip. Yet they haven’t spent that many picks on WRs.
Now lets take a team like the steelers. They are a running team, now how many picks have they used on a RB or got a good one in free agency over last 10 years.
Also if that back produced did they attempt to retain them???
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Like I told Miranda this ain’t no different then corporate america. I see the same mess when it comes to black professionals in management and their white counterparts.
Ain’t sports a reflection of society?
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
All I have to say in all of this is what I said previously in my post.
“Now Mizzo this is a team that traded their 1st round pick to their division rivals (cowboys). In which the cowboys drafted a pass rusher to chase Mcnabb. What kind of ignorance is this?”
Now tell me if thats a team trying to win a championship. This crap happened last year.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:35 pm
Meant to say
“How can one explain the constant and I mean constant ignorance of not darfting a WR.”
Should be How can one explain the constant and I mean constant ignorance of not darfting a RB.
December 23rd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Mizzo…
So good, I had to read it again.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:11 pm
Origin: Thanks for the info on the Arizona piece. I thought that was the case. I wasn’t sure. I’d like to know who actually goes and works with him because McNabb has put his dues in for entry to the HOF…but he needs another deep playoff run or 2 in my book to change his perception that is mostly Reid’s construction.
Overall, I think the Eagles have had very good offensive lineman (more or less) for some time. They’ve always had good tight ends. They’ve always had talented, but limited, backs and awful wideouts. This wide receiver issue is OLD. Carmichael and Quick. That’s it. That’s it. Not even giving you Cris Carter.
I think there is alot to be said for the franchise being cheap as all hell. They will spend on defense, though - for a minute. Frugality goes to the cost of a 1st round Running Back. The only position player more expensive than a #1 RB is a #1 QB. They should have invested in a top lead back a long time ago. If not through the draft, then through free agency. Corey Dillon worked well enough in NE. Bettis worked well enough in Pitt.
Willie Parker was a free agent (like Antonio Gates). Bettis - I believe was a free agent that the Rams no longer wanted. But they drafted several times and missed either on performance or character: Tim Worley, Barry Foster, Bam Morris, Amos Zeroeue, etc. Mendenhall was first #1 since Worley in ‘89, but they’ve had pile drivers just about every year in between.
My point with the Eagles isn’t that they don’t draft wide receivers…it’s that they don’t draft them well. Look at who they took and didn’t take. Look at the guys who’ve blown up and who haven’t. Colston and TJ were 7th rounders.
That’s why I asked the question re: chemistry because these wide receivers are not perceived as workers — they’re perceived as naturally gifted divas. I think that is a false premise that puts too much credit in the office of GMs who were more lucky than smart.
Look at all the Michigan receivers that have done absolutely nothing in the league — and there is the list of underperformers. It’s a pretty damn long list. Same for Florida. Same for Tennessee (lately). USC wants to get a piece of that pie as well. I think scouts better start looking for players with a real edge — not just guys who post good numbers in college.
December 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
T3 -
I just read the article on your site. I have to agree, the Eagles scouts are just bad when it comes to evaluating wide receivers. You’d think in the past 18 years (since Quick retired), that they’d have drafted one great wide receiver. Looking over records, only Owens in 2004 has even been selected for a Pro Bowl! It might also do their scouts some good to look to smaller schools for WR talent. You can find gems in the rough if you look hard enough.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:30 pm
kos:
Here’s why I’m only partly disagreeing with Mizzo. It may be that the scouts have gone to the GM and said, “Look, the difference in potential between who’ll be available when we pick and Guy X is so large, I think we should trade up now and grab him.”
(The Steelers did this to get Santonio Holmes a few years ago. Remember. I think they were clearly right. The Patriots pick Chad Jackson (Fla — ech!) didn’t turn out so great — but who cares since they have Moss and Welker?)
I just don’t know whether the scouts are saying — “Yeah, this guy’s marginal, but take him anyway.” Or “Spend the money! Pleeeeease Spend the Money!!” It would be bad if the scouts were raving about Pinkston. To me, that’s the point Mizzo is really making…that regardless of the quality of scouting — regardless of anything else, Lurie and Reid drive the bus and either elite talent is with Donovan or its not. However they manage to get it out there, they need to get it out there.
I think that’s the 100% correct position to take.
———————————————————–
kos — I just want to know why. I see a lot of effort. I really do. I think if the Eagles had a healthy Stallworth, Curtis, Brown, Avant corps, they’d be pretty damned good. I think if Brown, Curtis, Avant and McNabb played the entire year together, they’d be pretty damned good. And I also know I could fill up a room with guys I watched on a regular in college who turned out to suck.
I’d dedicate the four corners of the room to David Boston, David Terrell, Peter Warrick and Tamarick Vanover. I’d call it the, “This Is Gonna Hurt Me more Than it Hurts You” Room. We’d watch old re-runs of Boston torching Michigan and Terrell torching Ohio State. We put in some Desmond Howard Redskins film - following by Michael Westbrook Redskins film. Then we top off the night with a Detroit Lions loop of Carlos Rogers and Mike Williams. I wouldn’t be able to sleep so I’d force feed myself helpings of Tai Streets, Marquise Walker and Mercury Hayes.
The next day would be straight UT with “Rocky Top” blaring the background. We’d start out with side-by-side video of workouts by Kelley Washington and TO…then we go to the feature: The Worst of Peerless Price. It would be legendary. Marcus Nash would be there. Joey Kent. Donte would even make a cameo. Mark Jones, Cedric Wilson, and my main, main man — Cory Fleming. Ah, yeah Sun. It would be golden. No invites for Willie Gault, Carl Pickens or Anthony Miller. Michael Irvin says we definitely should invite Alvin Harper.
Let me know if you’d be down for the Florida party. That will be OFF the chain.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Good stuff T3,
I read your write up and I feel you on all points made. I think you all have valid points/arguments. It would be hard to argue against any of the points that are being made. Those points made should be the writing on the wall for McNabb. It’s time for him to pull a “KG” (translation: “BOUNCE!”).
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:53 pm
T3 -
LOL Dag bruh! Pulling out all of those bad receivers. To be fair, Boston was alright, ’til he ballooned up. Now the rest of those guys, great college players. Very poor pros. I don’t even want to think about Peerless Price. One good season in Buffalo (because Eric Moulds drew the best corners and double teams) got him a huge contract with the Falcons. He was supposed to be Vick’s #1, but then they found out he’s not very good without a real #1 drawing the best corners.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Ok Mizzo. It’s unanimous.
You’ve gotta get another team. GN, kos and I are all reppin’ the Steelers. Come on over. The water’s warm. We’ve some cold ones in the fridge and some pizza in the oven. Help yourself.
December 23rd, 2008 at 9:58 pm
Temple3,
That sounds great LOL!
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:03 pm
Help yourself Michelle. It’s only going down until the playoffs end. Everyone picks new bandwagons in 2009.
December 23rd, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Sorry for the rant and miss-spelling in my last few 5 comments guys (especially Temple) I have been trying to do work and get ready to hit this road. Busy doing 5 things at once. So my thoughts were a little scambled because I was reading half of the comments you’ll made. Then realized that I had missed a few.
Anyway everyone made a great points. Brotha Temple broke the knowledge down like KRS-One when it came to those WRs.
I agree its the hardest position to evauluate. Because they take so long to develope. Thats why I have always felt to just snap up another teams WR after he has developed. But that can be risky too.
Great point too Kos. On Mcnabb going to the vikings I believe…ummm check that hope that T-Jac would be retained so that he can learn under Mcnabb. Maybe haing 2 black Qbs on the roster won’t get the folks in the village too mad in Viking land.
HAHA Temple bandwagon jumping. Ain’t that what most folks do anyway!!!LOL!!!
Anyway time for my boy Mcnabb to bounce. If nothing else before Reid gets him killed.
If you don’t know check that game film from the eagles game last year vs the giants……12 sacks. And Mouse Davis Jr. Reid….keeps throwing and throwing and throwing.
LOL!!! He is like the energizer bunny of football passing.
December 23rd, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Temple3,
I might just do that. My 49ers are on their way back but it may take a few years.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:06 am
I can’t see McNabb in Minny. I think the Chi would be a better fit for him…..coupled with a solid/good or great WR also picked up in free agency. Who’s out there to go with McNabb to the Windy City this off season?
December 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am
T.J. WhoseYourMamma is a FA.
McNabb & T.J. would be a deadly combo if it goes down.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am
In Tampa there has been rumors that Buc managment are looking to trade for Dmac because the QB play has been spotty and Garcia will be 41 at the end of the season and his failure to develop a younger QB has been a bane of this team’s last season swoon ( I think it has more to do with losing Earnest Graham for the season) and the defense being on the field too long. So don’t be surprised if the Bucs offer the Eagles a package deal similar to the Jets deal for Farve.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:09 am
Yo GN why don’t you think Mcnabb won’t go to Minny.
I was telling Miranda I think he will go because the owner wants the city and state to pay for a new stadium.
So he needs to make a big splash in the playoffs.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:12 am
“( I think it has more to do with losing Earnest Graham for the season)”
Yeap I totally agree and called it once he went down. I knew there season was done.
Still think that the vikings owner will pull the trigger on a tradeor Mcnabb will force them to cut him then go there.
The bears just have no WRs….now they do run the ball. But also look at how cheap the Mckaskeys are as owners. They hate to spend a dollar. Spending a high pick plus Mcnabb’s 10 mill salary won’t work. Even if he restructures to 7-8 mill the bears are still too cheap for that.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:15 am
High till i die loced till they smoke me this shit don’t stop till my casket drops.
Funny thing is I was a Steeler fan until the Eagles drafted Randall. Now I gotta be real and admit that if they do Triple 5 Soul wrong, there will be a reevaluation of where my love goes.
Temple the receiver look was poetic. Gave me a broad range of emotions. Your piece was very good as well.
It’s not just about the draft. Randy Moss was dangling out there for anyone who had a 4th round pick. Running TO out of town by burning effigies of the cat outside the Linc was ridiculous. I think I made the point earlier about scouting and also sitting on their hands in the free agent off season.
Speaking of “Little Sticks” AG and I saw Pinkston in the Philly press room the last home game. I don’t want to put him on blast regarding an incident a couple of years back that I witnessed, so I’ll shut up.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:41 am
origin,
I know that on the surface it seems that Minnesota would be the logical place to go being that there’s a great RB already there (but no standout WRs). But Chicago is his hometown, and I think that it has the advantage. Also, the Bears were perhaps a QB away from maybe winning the SuperBowl 2 yrs ago so i’m sure McNabb will weigh that option in contrast to his chances being in Minnesota. I think the Bears are closer to winning it all moreso than the Vikings, simply because they’ve been there before.
December 24th, 2008 at 4:03 am
[i]NEXT!!!/oh, I believe that’s me/Harvey D get on the mic for the symphony[/i]
There are many ways my addition to this thread can go and everyone on here has already given his or her take on why the Eagles in the Reid/McNabb Era draft and stick with subpar talent at critical positions on the offensive side of the ball, notably WR and RB.
Bad drafting, atrocious coaching, and horrendous playcalling with lack of in-game adjustments all go into the mix but a good portion of the problem is that many of the Eagles’ wideouts since ‘99 don’t have that “want to” component to be great. Most have not had that chip on their shoulders to prove to the NFL at large that they are the best at their positions.
I’m never comfortable criticizing people for the things I can’t do because there’s some “want to” there already if they’ve made it to the NFL but more is needed. Reggie Brown squawked all last week that he didn’t deserve to be a healthy scratch in the three previous games but when he had the chance to prove it he cuts his route short of the goal line. Jason Avant follows up a career game with a disappearing act. DeSean Jackson is, is, is a ROOKIE and he should not already be the Eagles’ go to receiver. The young man has the “want to” but will the lack of size take years off his career? Kevin Curtis is serviceable and at times a threat opposing defenses have to account for but that is few and far between because he’s playing out of position as a #1 wideout. Hank Baskett may have the best mix of size, talent, and “want to” of the unit but will the stars be in his eyes when he makes his Bunny an honest woman? Time will tell. Greg Lewis is good in spots but is a guy that all teams have no matter the sport who makes the occasional play but once the focus is put on him by the opposition he is easily neutralized.
The strengths and weaknesses of this season’s Eagles wideout corps is moot though because the overriding reason for this always coming up short is lack of balance in the playcalling. Jerry Rice, Lynn Swann, Marvin Harrison, hell, even Don Maynard would be rendered ordinary if the defense doesn’t respect the run game. I’m not a big Westbrook fan because even though the guy leaves it on the field it’s a yearly ritual that he’s going to miss games because even with a balanced attack will he be in the lineup every week to tote the rock? Even with the lack of a front line FB, Westbrook’s backup, Corell Buckhalter, always gets yards every time he’s given the ball. Miz will back me up on the fact that Buck was supposed to be the feature back for this team and would have been too if he hadn’t blown out his knees three out of four seasons. The point is that even without a big bruiser in the backfield the Eagles have some talent at RB even though they could always use more.
So the problem still comes down to the playcalling and the one thing no one has said is that Andy Reid’s stubborness and conceit that he can win consistently throwing the ball over 70% of the time dooms this team every year. There are many things that I like in him as a coach like the fact he rarely rips his players in public and is even-keeled on the sidelines but his game day strategies don’t work if he’s the one calling the plays. Morningwheg doesn’t light the world on fire as innovative football mind but he did call a balanced game for Garcia and three of the previous four games this season. The only problem is that Reid turns over playcalling duties to him when it seems the team is done for the year. When Morningwheg’s calls and Jim Johnson’s defense result in wins that is when Reid takes back the playcalling like a spoiled child who only plays with a toy when someone else makes it fun after he abandoned it in a corner.
Where does this leave McNabb? Still an Eagle, I hope and believe, but change is going to come for this team and it’s franchise QB in the off-season. Take it to the bank, Big Red will not have as much power when it comes to signing players. Talk is the team will make a run at Scot Pioli of the Pats this season and if that happens Reid will have to like it or lump it. With knowing he could be on the way out if more middling seasons are not acceptable, I guaran-damn-tee Reid will either call a better game or just delegate full authority for game time decisions to Morningwheg and Johnson to keep his job. This will benefit Donny Mac but will he stay?
Trust and believe, the face of the Eagles in the 21st century hasn’t forgotten or forgiven being benched in that Baltimore game. Has he lost all respect and belief in Reid that the damage is irreparable? Probably so but I think DMac is just as stubborn as Reid and he’s going to pull a Jennifer Holliday slash Jennifer Hudson Dreamgirls on the Philly fans and tell them, “I’m not going. I’m the best QB you’ve ever had. And you and you and the Linc are all going to love me.”
So sorry, Vikings, Bears, and Bucs, even the 49ers if you’re looking to get legit off our franchise. Our QB is going no where because Reid will be gone before McNabb is. Take that excrement to the bank.
December 24th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
Good post 2Face……
You mentioned that when Garcia was at the helm, Reid called a “balanced” game for him. Why Garcia and not McNabb? Also, why do you think that the Eagles won’t allow McNabb to call his own plays?
December 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Harvey brotha your franchise QB was a goner the minute Reid lifted him after halftime. IN A CLOSE GAME NEVERTHELESS !! and Dmac has already said he wants some words with Big Red, Lurie and Banner. I say Pewter and Red looks good and they have money and draft picks.
December 24th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
OK, we know you can write about football. Now let’s have a bball story. Cavs / Rockets?
December 24th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Not sure if I’m necessarily buying the try-hard to get a WR Eagles approach. I don’t understand the reasoning. Well- I do understand the reasoning but not buying. The Eagles didn’t DRAFT Stallworth or Curtis. They signed them both.. Though Stallworth torched Houston and had blazing deep speed and a chemistry with 5, the Eagles let him go the Gold Standard. Curtis got his numbers as a slot for the Rams. Let’s not forget Big Game and an aging, yet still capable, Bruce were still in STL when Curtis had his “career” year. He’s Welker-esque but forced to be a #1 thanks to the Birds. They got TO and now brought in DeSean this year. Reggies shown No. 2 receiver tendencies until he got hurt. But dig this, Na Brown, James Thrash, Charles Johnson, Torrance Small, Todd Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell??? Is that REALLY trying? I mean REALLY? The Dolphins grabbed Ginn at #9 overall. The Steelers traded up to get his teammate Santonio. The Colts spent a No.1 on Gonzo. The Pats traded a 4 on Moss. The Boys traded a 1 for Roy. The Bolts traded a 2 for Chambers. THEY’RE trying…drafting ONE receiver in the FIRST round isn’t necessarily trying…I know, gems can be found later, value and team need play a part in the draft. But I mean the evaluation of talent and effort is inexplicable. Mizzo, you’re correct in your assessment bro.
December 24th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
@GN
Reid and the OC called a better game with Garcia at the helm IMO because they knew he was definitely more limited than McNabb. Despite what ignorant fans and the duplicitous media would have you believe, McNabb when healthy is one of the most gifted individuals in the NFL, physically and mentally. Garcia has a high football IQ especially in the WCO but his arm is only a little stronger than Chad Pennington’s. McNabb though when his game is on still the most dangerous Eagle on offense.
McNabb is the victim of his own ability when it comes to Reid’s playcalling because the coach thinks McNabb can always will the team to victory even when he’s not playing at high level. Andy Reid is a Mormon in Philly running BYU’s offense with only a passing, no pun intended, interest in the running game.
Why McNabb doesn’t run his own plays or at least audible more at the line is a mystery to me especially this season in particular the first Dallas game when Reid call that lateral mess. He does need to be more vocal in the game planning though instead of just running whatever’s radio’d to him.
December 25th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Harvey D:
We essentially agree about that “want to.” That’s a huge factor. The receiver is rare who comes out of college, no matter how highly touted, and blazes the league. There are just too many grown ass men playing DB who ain’t havin’ it.
I haven’t finished the research, but I’d almost be willing to bet that Greg Jennings is the ONLY elite receiver drafted by a franchise run by Walsh-Holmgren disciples in the last 10 years. Green Bay has had the best results - Driver, Javon Walker (useless to them now), and Jennings. San Fran? Zilch. Seattle? Empty cupboards. Gruden? Free agents and trades — McCardell, Keyshawn and Jurevicius to win a Super Bowl. Michael Clayton? Maurice Stovall? Shiiiiiiiid.
Detroit under Mooch, etc.? Nah. Roy’s only had 1 thousand yard season in his life. Never scored double digit touchdowns. He’s an outsider.
In Green Bay, even Donald Driver was a 7th rounder. Great receivers are made in the NFL, I believe. The guys who’ve made it, chose to make it and did the work.
Jennings is 5′11″, 197. He does talk much. He’s humble and wants to be a preacher when he’s done scorching defenses. Western Michigan diamond in the rough. I put Jennings in there because he had 12 touches last year and nearly 1k in 13 games. He’s over that mark this year and could get his 10+ tds this week. His ypc is very high and he’s the lead dog pulling that sled. He’s a notch below the guys heading to the PB in the NFC, but he’s right on the cusp.
December 25th, 2008 at 6:56 am
T3
Definitely a big fan of Greg Jennings too because I read a Peter King blurb about him in his rookie season and how he was becoming a dependable receiver for Favre. Since then every season the young man has only gotten better. Not breakout better but certainly on the come. GB since the Sterling Sharpe days hasn’t had quote unquote superstar receivers but the ones they do have are usually homegrown guys who play tough and yes, they display that elusive “want to.”
December 25th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Wow…lots of good stuff here. I’m a Skins fan and after watching that game Sunday even I have to admit that if the Eagles had any good receivers they’d have won that game. I remember that NFC championship game against Carolina where McNabb had at least one pass picked off simply b/c the receiver couldn’t fight off the DB for the freakin ball. D-Mac has had the worst receiving corp for a big time QB since Elway under Dan Reeves. He hasn’t even had guys that could be made to look great like Clayton and Duper. It’s just sad. And like T3 has been saying, great receivers are self-made after they get in the league. They’re not drafted, with a few exceptions.
December 25th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
T-Time…damn right bruh. I guess they think we are stupid. Why have other franchises prospered while the Eagles have floundered?
See when Randy Moss was out there, he was labled an outsider who is also a quitter.
This is when the league dipped on the fans and created this Randy Moss faux moonin’ monster who had a penchant for running over, and I jest, little cop Minny nice old ladies who needed a hand crossing the street as they wrote you a ticket.
So then, Moss goes to the Pats for petty cash and all of the sudden his identity has changed into this great teammate.
Still after setting the record, he still didn’t get the MVP consideration he well deserved.
Anyway, you have to be shrewd in your business dealings if you want to truly be successful. I think for the most part, the Eagles have a sound organization, but…
December 26th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Would “they” be the Eagles organization?
December 26th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
Yes. My bad on that. I should know better. I should have prefaced this with the quote I left on your site to explain why the risk on Moss should have been taken.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
T-Time:
Before y’all get carried away…
Teddy Ginn is what they call a Strong UnderPerform. He’s ranked 42nd in receiving yards and has had only 1 hundred yard game. If it weren’t for the Wildcat, he’d probably be considered a BUST. Anthony Gonzalez is ranked 46th, has 1 100 yard game and only 2 with more than 5 catches. Chris Chambers is ranked 91st. He’s only had ONE thousand yard season in his entire career. Double digit TDs - once. His biggest game this year? 4 catches, 83 yards vs. Denver. None of these cats are elite and none of them necessarily put the Eagles over the top.
Names and draft rank don’t mean anything. On field performance is all that matters. It seems clear to me that elite receivers are a product of work-work-work and more work. If you work the list, you’ll see exactly how hard it is to secure players who are elite at this position.
I’ve already discussed Roy Williams. For all his notoriety and acclaim - most of which I believe he deserves - he’s still an underperform, though only slightly.
I don’t want you to think I’m defending the Eagles. I do believe, though, there is more to this than meets the eye.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
Mizzo:
Totally agree on Moss.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
TT:
Kudos for remembering Na Brown. On that one alone, I’m inclined to concede the Eagles may not be trying. Yikes!!
December 29th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
DNab is under the microscope again. The media is all the comments he made during the press conference yesterday. I wish they would just get off his back.
January 16th, 2009 at 7:42 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/sports/football/16eagles.html?ref=sports
Is the New York Times trying to sell you an Edsel??
January 16th, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Man that shit was garbage. Who are they trying to fool?
January 16th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
I think they were trying to make Giants’ fans feel better.
January 16th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
That was my first thought as well.
January 16th, 2009 at 11:12 pm
Jon Gruden just got the axe in Tampa via NFL Network.
January 17th, 2009 at 5:52 pm
HAHA Temple that article was trash.
Those WRs except Avant and Desean are trash.
January 17th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Because not everyone will pay the cost to win like the George Steinbrenners and Jerry Joneses. The quarterback, coach, and GM will take heat before the owner does. As long as the owner makes money and the aforementioned people take the heat, what does Jeffrey Lurie care if he ever wins the Super Bowl?
January 17th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
“I’ll say again what I’ve said many times before. Black writers please stand up. If you don’t write it, who will?”
Ain’t gonna happen, Miz. Too many of them are cool with cashing checks and selling their souls. How they can believe the lie when they look in the mirror is beyond me.
January 17th, 2009 at 8:00 pm
“Because not everyone will pay the cost to win like the George Steinbrenners and Jerry Joneses. The quarterback, coach, and GM will take heat before the owner does. As long as the owner makes money and the aforementioned people take the heat, what does Jeffrey Lurie care if he ever wins the Super Bowl?”
Ding Ding Ding…..looks like we have a winner.
January 30th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
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