Friday Fire: Is LeBron James the Best Athlete of All Time?
The NBA is the most athletic pro league right?
As LeBron James begins his all out, Welcome to the Terrordome assault on everything mentally and physically athletic, the question must be asked:
Is LeBron James the best athlete of all time?
Yeah, Julius Erving, David Thompson, Dominique Wilkins, Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are all physically talented, but do they compare?
Also, because of his size, strength, vision, speed and quickness, what kind of quarterback do you think LeBron have made in the NFL?
LeBron offers his opinion here.
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January 2nd, 2009 at 12:45 am
I don’t know that he’s the best athlete (not player) in sports, but he’s definitely on NEXT level in the NBA. Wilt and Shaq were dominant, but neither of them had LeBron’s skills. Magic revolutionized the point guard position, but he wasn’t the triple-double threat LeBron is. Michael Jordan was the most athletic player of his time, but he essentially had a wide receiver’s body. LeBron looks like a linebacker/defensive end. Truly the most terrifying force in the NBA. Hard to believe he hasn’t been voted MVP yet.
BTW, he’s leaving Cleveland in 2010. Period. End of story.
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:49 am
Mizzo,
Good question. I would say Bo Jackson.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:46 am
I got to go with Michelle here. Bo Jackson. Dude was an all-star in baseball, an all-pro in football, and ran track in the SEC.
And for the sake of Cleveland sporting sanity….. he can’t leave. Stay LeBron. Let Cavs fans have their moment. The guy whose number you wear tortured them from the time he got into the league until the time he left. Their football team fumbled away multiple chances to go to the Super Bowl. Their baseball team screwed the pooch more times than they can count.
Give them something LeBron.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:47 am
Anyone ever seen Allen Iverson’s highlights when he was the QB for his high school football team? WOW. He was Vick before Vick.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:24 am
miz, I’m assuming that you are limiting it to basketball since all of your examples were basketball in which case…
I got to go with Wilt… before knee injury in late 60s
his combination of size, strength, and jumping was absurd. He was clearing 7 ft high jump in high school for his track team. The year after he retired from basketball he became a world-class volleyball player overnight
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 am
I’m with MODI on this one about Wilt because it always boggles my mind when I read about what he accomplished in any sport he tried. He probably gets short shrift nowadays because most of his highlights are in B/W from the Paleozoic Era of the NBA but those who do the research know the guy was a beast. Shaq in his prime was nothing but power, unfocused, out of control power at times but I know in a dream matchup that Wilt probably would have used that power against him to get the better of him.
Lebron? Eeh. No offense to the young man but I don’t see all the greatness everyone else does yet. Probably because he came into the Lig like most high-schoolers, raw. All the physical gifts? Yeah, that’s clearly evident but the hype surrounding him probably put my blinders up about him which is more my issue than anything else and also I’m becoming the crotchety old guy who gives no respect to the young bucks.
Anyway, just staying in basketball, the best pure athletes to come through the League IMO are as follows:
1. Wilt Chamberlain
2. Sean Kemp
3. David Robinson
4. Hakeem Olajuwon
5. Karl Malone
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:32 am
And dammit, I’m so tired of seeing him throw chalk dust in the air everywhere I turn around.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:02 am
Just for the sake of the discussion people, this is about ATHLETE, not player.
I’m factoring in everything he is physically. Bo was a monster, but could he touch the back of the back board?
I’m also adding in agility.
I respect your list HD, but were those players, with the exception of Wilt and Dream, as fluid as LBJ?
Modi I’m talking about every sport ever played.
IMO no sport compares to the NBA when the discussion is athleticism.
My photographer sent me that pic a while ago bruh, but I hear what you are saying.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:03 am
Oh yes Miranda, Bubba Chuck was a sick quarterback.
If if wasn’t for that damn bowling alley…
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Bo Jackson in his prime.
Deion Sanders in his prime.
Michael Vick in his prime.
Dominique Wilkins in his prime.
Ken Griffey Jr. in his prime.
Jackson and Sanders were two sport stars who excelled on the professional level.
Bo Jackson was capable of leading the league in HRs, stolen bases and RBIs. When you think of five tool player, he was the one who personified it during that era.
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
LeBron
Ali
Bo
January 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
It is somewhat difficult to pinpoint the BEST athlete, but I would also include Kenny Lofton (played college basketball at Arizona, played MLB for Cleveland) or Julius Peppers (played college/pro football and college basketball)…
January 2nd, 2009 at 1:35 pm
I think some are misunderstanding the question and that’s my fault for being so vague.
Of course I know of Bo and Neon and Lofton.
I’m speaking of an athlete’s physical prowess as he is. It doesn’t matter if he’s played one sport.
I see LeBron in Terrelle Pryor and wonder what could have been if he’d continued his all state football career as a tight end…but I took it further because of his court vision running the break. Against the Sixers he had this sick no look bounce pass to the base line for a teammate jam. Amazing.
So again, I wonder what could have been if it was found he had an arm.
With his height could he be successful in baseball and play shortstop or center field?
Five step drop and cannon a bomb to R Moss for the January to February score.
He could play all five positions in this day of lax rules and be successful.
Kemp could jump but could he score from the top of the key with 10 seconds left?
Wilt? Dream? Kareem? Could Oscar sit on the rim after a dunk?
Could Magic Allen Iverson his way up the court at the speed of a Bull Wonder?
Imagine LeBron leading off third and the pitcher in his windup…how fast could he be to home?
Balls in the gap at short would die in his glove just as they fell into his over the shoulder basket in center.
Randall Cunningham quarterback, Al Toon receiver, Charles Haley pass rusher, Steve Atwater speed knocker…
I really think LeBron could do it all if he wanted to just because of how he is dominating the game currently.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Let me be clear, the LeBron dominating the game thing is ridiculous when it’s paired with the notion that LeBron has somehow surpassed Kobe as the best player in the game. Kobe is sugjugating his game for the sake of making his teammates ready to win the title. LeBrons still ain’t close to Kobe when it comes to what he can do on the basketball court.
But physically, LeBron is the greatest freak to play the game of basketball with the possible exception of a young Shaq and Wilt. But when you consider that Wilt weighed as a rookie what LeBron does now, and how amazingly fast LeBron is, how high he jumps, his peripheral vision, ability to leap multiple times, although his balance and body control are not nearly as good as Kobe or MJ had, I think he might out do both of the big men,
I think you underestimate boxers. They do what they do while someone is trying to kill them, and they keep on doing it after they’ve been hit with blows that would crumple the almost every NBA player you can name. The amazingly quick brain processing that goes into boxing, combined with hand eye cordination that is out of this world is amazing IMO.
January 2nd, 2009 at 2:24 pm
Oh you are right about Kobe. I talk about it here.
This has nothing to do with his domination as a basketball player. Trying to keep it centered on the domination as an athlete.
Figadeal me?
I totally agree regarding boxers. They are top notch athletes and could play more minutes than a lot of NBA players.
Joking here, but I don’t see Roy Jones out jumping AI.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:03 pm
I feel like this question was asked recently — but without reference to LeBron. At the time, I suggested Usain Bolt. I’m thinking about leaning toward Barry Sanders or Jim Brown.
It seems to me that Jim Brown, during his era, enjoyed the same degree of physical dominance over his peer group that LeBron James currently enjoys. I’ve actually heard people say that Jim Brown was never tackled for a loss. That’s pure legend, but it demonstrates the yawning chasm between him and his peers - both athletically and in terms of production. He is reputed to have been the world’s best lacrosse player. I’d say that widespread recognition of being the BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD in two sports puts him somewhere near the top of the list — and certainly a notch or three above LeBron James.
For me, Sanders enters the picture because his style was so remarkable. It was a pure manifestation of kinesthetic intelligence — moving, reading, reacting, anticipating, causing, confusing and confounding. He was physically able to do things that I’ve not seen anyone else do. He is the only player that I know of who had so many runs of over 60, 70 and 80 yards against elite defenses. He’s the only player that I recall routinely spinning defenders around such that they were essentially playing backwards. He’s the only player that I recall injecting so much caution into defenders that they played perceptibly SLOWER simply to avoid the inevitable embarassment. For all of LT2’s talents (and they are considerable), from the perspective of simply rushing the ball, he and Sanders occupy different strata. LT2 can’t even see Barry. And that’s not a knock on LT2. Sanders’ approach to making defenders miss is simply unparalleled in the game — and he used his unique combination of agility, patience and speed. He has the highlight reel that I can’t stop watching. No one else does.
The point that KevDog makes re: boxing can be extrapolated to sports where pain is much more of a factor than it is in the NBA. The NBA is very physical and it is definitely a contact sport — but its not a collision sport like football or hockey. Nor is it particularly life threatening like boxing or a martial art. As such, athleticism expressed in relative calm could be deemed less significant than in other sports. Take your pick.
I don’t have a strong opinion either way.
I initially picked Bolt because of his separation from his peer group on the field of play. In track, that degree of separation is usually tied to athleticism. In team sports, it can be due to any number of factors. Nonetheless, Brown and Sanders enjoyed a “Boltian” separation from others. Brown’s career rushing mark, yards per carry, and single-season marks stood for decades. Sanders YPC average is astounding and about half a yard per carry higher than LT2. Sanders also played behind a notoriously weak offensive line and leads the NFL in negative plays. NFL Films calculated that if you could erase his negative plays, his YPC would be something sick like 8 yards per carry. That’s how good he was. Incomparably good.
LeBron’s separation from his NBA peers is purely physical. Kobe, Wade and several other players are at least as(arguably more) skilled as he. Moreover, given his career achievements, the greatest current basketball ATHLETE just might be that short dude in Detroit. I understand that you’ve separated prowess from athleticism — except that prowess is exactly how we tend to access athleticism.
If the two are to be purely divorced, my answer (with tongue firmly planted in cheek) would be….drum roll….
DAVID BOSTON!!!!
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:06 pm
Naw I still go with BO Jackson (in terms of who I have seen). The man was a monster.
Do you know that he was once clocked at running a 4.1 40 yard dash.
He was as fast as willie gualt who was on the raiders teams with Bo.
Willie was a world class sprinter and a WR.
Bo was just sick.
Now dudes I haven’t seen. That would be Wilt and Jim Brown. Those guys were unbelieveable.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:07 pm
GUARD=Kenny Lofton.
GUARD=Terrell Owens.
CENTER=Julius Peppers.
FORWARD=Tony Gonzalez.
FORWARD=Antonio Gates.
Bench=Donovan McNabb.
Bench=Carl Crawford
Bench=Dave Winfield
This could be a pretty solid college basketball team.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:10 pm
Bo could have won a NFL MVP and a MLB MVP.. he was a phenomenal, imposing, dominate athlete. Bo was the ultimate athlete. In the late 1980’s, he was right there with Jordan. And really some would say Bo Jackson was more revered than Jordan…until Bo got hurt badly..
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
I’d take Bo over LeBron too.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:57 pm
Don’t forget about R. Moss Patrick. Jason Williams told me he was the second best player to throw oops to behind Stromile Swift.
January 2nd, 2009 at 3:59 pm
See…
This is no disrespect to Bo because Bo was one of a kind but I think LeBron could have had a similar impact if he stayed in football.
That’s the whole point I’m trying to make when I referenced Pryor.
That is LeBron.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:16 pm
Taking a blast from the past.
Jim Thorpe
As far as dominating athletically in his time period, there has never been another like him.
January 2nd, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Now the names are beginning to come out. I’m trying to fit LeBron in that kind of context.
January 2nd, 2009 at 5:06 pm
He belongs in the conversation.
Awhile back, we had a conversation about the many Black athletes who were so talented that they caused changes to rules. There are many people on this list. I’d put Kareem on this list as well. Most folks remember him as a 40 year-old or as that older cat who was outmuscled by Moses Malone (if ya live in Philly), but he was also a 6-time MVP and somewhat of a martial artist. He caused a few rules to be changed in his day and was a model of grace at 7′2″.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Iverson in his prime was an athletic freak. On pure athletic talent, he was on par with anyone. He was just so frail that he couldn’t do everything that somebody like Lebron can do. But, his innate talent was oustanding.
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:19 pm
Big Man, I hear you:
January 2nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm
Another blast from the past…Jackie Robinson.
At UCLA he played baseball, football, basketball, and ran track.
January 2nd, 2009 at 7:55 pm
I was thinking of Jim Thorpe also, KevDog. Given the time, given the competition, given the success in multiple sports, given the changes forced by his scuccess, he was something else. I was going to say Wilt also, but I understand the question is whether any athlete could be so proficient across an array of sports. To me, this is truly speculative. I wonder whether, if LeBron had been QB and a Julius Peppers, or a Pittsburgh defense, faced him, whether the cumulative effect of a number of good defenders, whether he would have been so dominant. To be honest though, it’s hard for me to formulate an answer. I’ve seen Bo. I’ve heard about Wilt-and his success in track and field-and remember-he played volleyball after he retired from the L. Within the league itself, I gotta go with others who say that simply as a physical specimen, yes, LBJ is something else. But also, as Temple said, he hasn’t compromised his game as Kobe, DWade, MJ did, for the purposes of winning a championship. Not that he won’t-in fact I’d bet good money here and now that he will. The man can play. But he hasn’t yet. And my submission for best athlete ever, in the history of the universe: Steve Balboni. Ya heard it here first!
January 2nd, 2009 at 8:36 pm
The Yankee Coop?
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Yeah….a body built for darts and pool! Discuss…
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
LOL he sure knew how to yank ‘em inside the foul pole.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:10 pm
I’m still in awe over Usain Bolt … plus, I’ve always thought pure speed is one of the best measures of raw talent and Bolt is the fastest person on the planet by a rather large margin.
January 2nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm
Yeah, Bolt was incredible last year…it’s true, all those who have mentioned him. And he’s 6′5. The top sprinters usually aren’t nearly that tall, from what I’ve seen….I mean, just the fact that they mention Usain’s height indicates how unusual his size is. Still though, would he be really good in many other sports? Perhaps a wide-out, perhaps he could hoop, heck he might be a hell of a golfer for all I know. But yeah, the amount by which he won certainly was amazing. Reminds me of Michael Johnson in ATL in ‘96…
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:08 am
Too bad you’re talking about just athletic talent, even though my choice would be kicking asses in the mix and taking no prisoners.
However, if you are talking about inside and outside the athletic world, no one shines a light brighter than Paul Robeson.
“Robeson earned altogether fifteen varsity letters in football, baseball, basketball, and track and field.”
And that’s just college sports. What if he was balling today? Where would you put him?
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:31 am
I hear you bruh. Thanks for that. I’ve read his big ass book at least five times. He was remarkable to have caught so much wreck and still persevere. Folks were probably Jack Johnson scared of him while also having respect because of his overall talent.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 am
Plus he did his thing in a time and place when the specter of a 15 foot southern (of the Canadian border) tree and a strong rope was more real than troglodyte bloggers on MSM.
Let Mr. “I want to be the first billionaire athlete” marinate on that.
January 3rd, 2009 at 2:23 am
This should be a statement, not a question.
January 3rd, 2009 at 4:23 am
HELLLLLLLL NOOOOOOO !@!! Jackie Robinson is the best althlete of all- time with Jim Thorpe second because Robinson this is Robinson’s byline in college..
“Robinson transferred to the nearby University of California, Los Angeles where he became the school’s first athlete to win varsity letters in four sports: baseball, basketball, football and track. He was one of four African American players on the 1939 UCLA Bruins football team, the others were Woody Strode, Kenny Washington and Ray Bartlett. Washington, Strode, and Robinson starred on the 1939 UCLA Bruins football team where they made up three of the four backfield players This was a rarity—to have so many African Americans when only a few dozen at all played on college football teamsUltimately, Robinson withdrew from UCLA in 1941 with one semester to go, to take a job with the government’s National Youth Adminstration”
Robinson’s Major League debut ended approximately sixty years of baseball segregation, also known as the baseball color line. His career started at the advanced age of 28 so he only played 10 seasons; all of them for the Brooklyn Dodgers.[37] During his career, the Dodgers played in six World Series and Jackie played in six All-Star games.[38] He is a member of the Baseball Hall of Fame and a member of the All-Century Team. Robinson hit more than 100 home runs in six seasons and had a .311 career batting average, a .409 career on-base percentage, and substantially more walks (740) than strikeouts (291).] Robinson led the league in fielding in 1948, 1950 and 1951.He stole home 19 times in his career; one of the most difficult feats in baseball, and none of them were double steals. A double steal is when a player on first steals second at the same time as the player on third steals home and is the only way that current players will attempt to steal home.
Le Bron has not even won MVP no.1 and only won 1 scoring title and unlike Jordan he’s never even won any level of all- NBA defense which is important amongst NBA players than the scoring titles especially amongst the elite players. It is hard to letter in one sport in high school and an elite university like UCLA and excel but Robinson was great in all four and Baseball wasn’t even his best sport it was Football according to friends and Robinson’s family. Robinson was a Hall-of Famer in baseball, if the NFL had intergrated by the 1940’s he would have dominated the NFL as a running back. Lebron ain’t even close to being the best player in the league.
let’s just chill on James greatness until he wins some MVPS and World Championships.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:22 am
Glad to see Thorpe, Jackie Robinson and dave Winfield come out. Winnie was 13-1 as a pitcher during his final year in college and a damn fine basketball player. He also id one of the only guys to skip the minor leagues all together.
T#, appreciated the breakdown.
As for boxers, if you include the mental and emotional aspects to the game, then no one could touch them. Every single weakness becomes exploited. More respect for boxers than any other sport.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:25 am
HD, I never perceived Karl malone to be incredibly athletic. I believed he just outworked everybody else in the weight room and training to get to where he was. On the flipside, I would argue that Derrick Coleman was far more athletic (agility-wise), and with even 70% of malone’s work ethic could have been the best PF of all-time
January 3rd, 2009 at 7:55 am
i think that lebron james IS the greatest athlete of all time.
of course that doesnt mean he is the greatest PLAYER of all time.
but it terms of his actual anatomy and talent skill, the guy is a beast. he’s 6′8, weighs as much as Yao, faster than AI, can jump higher than dwight howard, and has the skill to do pretty much any type of sport better than most people. the guy can play every single position in basketball and can play both on the defensive and offensive end of a football field.
oh and he was a wide receiver in highschool, not a quarterback, so I don’t know why you asked that.
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:11 am
E this has nothing to do with accomplishments.
LeBron will get his. Trust me on that. When it’s all said and done he might be considered the best of all time. He just turned 24.
In our lifetime, has there been an athlete so big who could do so much on the floor?
January 3rd, 2009 at 8:14 am
Kyler if you read the entire thread you would have seen where I stated LeBron was a tight end.
I said quarterback because like I’ve already said, Terrelle Pryor reminds me of LeBron.
Trust me all this will be mentioned later in time. I guarantee you.
January 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
Mizzo - have I mentioned lately I adore you?
January 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 pm
I think that if we are talking greatest athletes in American history, it’s between LeBron and Jim Brown, and everone else is on the outside looking in. LeBron’s combination of size, speed, agility and skill has never been seen in any sport. People forget that LeBron is bigger than Karl Malone was, yet look at everything he can do on the court.
As a sophmore and junior in high school, LeBron was the number one ranked college football prospect in the entire country. He trained with the same wide reciever coach that tutored Randy Moss as a high school athlete, and he said LeBron was far better than Moss had been.He’d be the best reciever in the game if he was playing football, hands down.
LeBron is way better than Kobe right now, that argument ended last season. He was far harder for the Celtics to handle in last years playoffs, and he had far less around him to relieve pressure than Kobe did. The only reason Kobe won MVP over him was because the voters wanted to throw him a lifetime achievement award. I actually think that was fine, since he should’ve had several MVPs before, but Paul and Bron both had better seasons.
But if we are talking best athlete in recorded history, regardless of nationality, I think that question is actually pretty easy. It’s Bruce Lee, and nobody else is close.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 pm
LOL…Comedy hour comes to TSF.
January 3rd, 2009 at 11:49 pm
I guess people are sniffing all that chalk…
January 4th, 2009 at 7:23 pm
Comedy hour? Nah, what I said is true, he really was that highly regarded as a high school wide receiver. And he really did play far, far better than Kobe all of last season. Look at his regular season stats, and then look at what he did in the playoffs. Kobe isn’t close, and don’t try to tell me that Kobe had less around him than Bron did. Hell, Kobe and his Lakers couldn’t even take the C’s to seven games! I love Kobe, but the argument over whether he or LeBron is better right now is almost as dumb as the argument over Chris Paul and Deron Williams. In both cases, it really isn’t close.
But like I said, I don’t actually think LeBron was the best athlete of all time. Bruce Lee was small, but his power, speed, coordination and endurance was incomparable to anybody else. He was incredible.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Wiht all due respect. You don’t know anything about basketball if that is your argument.
January 4th, 2009 at 11:43 pm
Ummm, I don’t know anything about basketball? My argument is that LeBron outperformed Kobe in both the regular season and the playoffs last year, and that he led a much weaker team to greater success against the eventual NBA champions. He’s also performing better this season, and his team has a better record. And I didn’t even mention the way he has dominated Kobe the past two years in head to head matchups. Thus, regardless of what you think Kobe used to be, LeBron is now better. How is that a ridiculous argument?
You say Kobe is only subjugating his game to prepare his team to win a title. I’ll agree with you that he has limited his scoring to give his teammates more opportunities, but obviously he didn’t do it that effectively last year or he wouldn’t have watched his team get closed out in game six by thirty plus. Kobe is a great player, and obviously to this point he has had a greater career than ‘Bron because he has been in the league longer. But to continue arguing that he is currently better than LeBron, when every bit of evidence, statistical and otherwise, points to LeBron being the best player in the league, just doesn’t make sense.
January 5th, 2009 at 12:42 am
Your argument is ridiculous because it is factually as well as analytically wrong.
LeBron is not better than Kobe, never has been and, since his game is static, won’t be for several years if ever.
Now we could go on with this back and forth for post after post but frankly, your knowledge of basketball isn’t worth my having the discussion with you.
But you just don’t know what you’re talking about.
January 5th, 2009 at 3:28 am
LABRON IS NO DOUBT VERY TALENTED AND GIFTED.ONE PROBLEM I HAVE IS THAT HES GREAT DURING THE REGULAR SEASON,BUT COME PLAY OFF TIME HE SEEMS TO PLAY AVERAGE.LETS WAIT AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS THIS YEAR SINCE HE HAS ADDED SUPPORT AT THE GUARD SPOT.I NOT A LEBRON HATER BUT PLAY OFF ARE WHERE CHAMPIONS ARE MADE!!
January 5th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
LeBron and I had a discussion on this topic last night. I’ll have it up in a bit.
January 5th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
No shit?!!!!!!!
Cool.
I’m going to be willing to bet that he admits that he’s not at Kobe’s level yet.
January 5th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
If by facts you mean stats or team performance, then no, it isn’t wrong. He was unquestionably better in the playoffs last year, and his team really did perform better than the Lakers against the C’s. Also, take a look at the Hollinger rankings sometime; both LeBron and Paul have been posting a better PER than Kobe for several seasons.
And it doesn’t make sense to say a players game is static when his defense, free throw shooting, turnovers, and field goal percentage have vastly improved since his rookie season.
You are entitled to your opinion, but it is unwise to treat other positions totally dismissively when the weight of statistical and performance-based evidence is not in your favor. People who act like that are what we like to call “flat-earthers”.
January 6th, 2009 at 12:36 am
If Bo Jackson had stayed healthy, he would’ve at least been in the top-5 list of best athletes ever in sports. There hasn’t been another one like him since he retired.
January 6th, 2009 at 1:40 pm
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January 13th, 2009 at 9:33 am
Sorry kevdog gotta go with ethan here. Kobe is nowhere near lebron. Throw stats away even and just watch a cavs game and a lakers game. Watch next Monday. A knowledgeable fan will see considerable difference in the impact lebron has on his team winning and the impact Kobe has. Watch how lebron can get to the rim at will and set his teammates up with ease. Lebron can lock down Kobe but Kobe’s D will do nothing to bronbron (it don’t think these guys will match up against each other for at least half the game including crunch time -foul permiting- you’re kidding yourself).
Kobe would be able to contain Someone like wade but has no chance against lebron (who as was said earlier is as big as karl Malone with as much speed to keep up with AI and as much game as chris paul ((anyone here see cp3 as lebron in a point guards body? - similar range, handles, game etc. In other words if lebron had lebrons skill set but were 6′0″ 180 instead of 6′9″ 270 wouldn’t he be cp3?). Lebron would be able to Kobe to a degree - def moreso than vice versa. There is no doubt in my mind about this. Just watch on mlk day on tnt. Both players will go at each other knowing that it’s an NBA finals preview.
Mark these words. This is not lebrons year. THIS IS HIS DECADE. The cavs are dominating this year and the team lebron is working with is mediocre at best. Change lebron with wade. Or substitute lebron on kobe’s team n vice versa. No way the cavs go to game 7 of the ecf with the celtics with Kobe or wade. LBJ on the lakers instead of Kobe and the lakes plow through the playoffs. Lose 1 game max. An argument saying kobes is better than lbj holds as much weight as an argument saying that d-will is a better pg than cp3. The only wing player who’ll be able to hold weight in a disucssion with lebron will be Jordan. 6 rings on a team that revolved around a player who wasn’t a dominant big man. Kobe cannot hold a torch to mj. Hate to revert back to this method of argument, but there’s no way mj doesn’t sweep the celtics with that laker supporting cast. Same goes for lebron. Lebron n the black Jesus are on a different level than Kobe.
As for athleticism - Again lebron has to be up there. Just like your deions and your bo jacksons and ur AIs and ur Ussain bolts, lebron is a freak of nature. Don’t have to defend that. These are guys that can excel if not dominate almost any sport of their choosing if they focused on it. Don’t know enough bout Bruce lee to offer anything there, to be honest.
Also, totally agree bout the boxing argument. Same could be said bout football. To dominate in football, as in boxing, is a world of an achievement.
January 13th, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Who in there right mind puts Shawn Kemp that far up? Karl Malone? Terrel Nice hands Feet Owens? The greatest are those that made great things happen, they set themselves apart. These I feel have done this in there sport. beyond what any other person before them has ever done.
1. Tiger Woods
2. Michael Phelps
3. Michael Jordan
4. Barry Sanders
5. Lebron James
January 13th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
“Kobe would be able to contain Someone like wade but has no chance against lebron”
Not really going to argue the ridiculous argument you and Ethan make but this does indeed deserve comment. Kobe is the best ball denial defender the league has ever seen and he absolutely can guard Lebron. He’s too small to shut him down, but he can guard him single coverage and make him work for his shots and make him work very hard to catch the ball. But Kobe absolutely destroyed Wade the other night when he was defending him. LeBron doesn’t have a chance to guard Wade.
Bottom line is that size does impact who can guard who, but don’t be foolish and make stupid argument that show you don’t know anything about the game.
And yeah, Monday IS gonna be interesting. You LeBronze jockers are gonna be in for a some reality testing.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
I missed that game. Gonna have to get a look at that one, because that sure didn’t show up in the box score.
http://www.nba.com/games/20090111/MIALAL/boxscore.html
I know the boxscor rarely tells the story, so I am sure you’re assessment has some merit.
Nonetheless, it looks like the demands of the game took far more of a toll on Bryant than Wade (statistically). Wade even had 9 assists. Wade played 40 minutes, only committed 3 fouls, but didn’t shoot his usual boat load of free throws (only 7, same as KB).
Wade took 22 shots. Were they really bad shots? Was he simply unable to get where he wanted to go?
January 13th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
Lucky me — saw the last 4 plays of the game. (4 plays don’t make a game, but they were illustrative.)
1) Wade stole the ball from Kobe.
2) Wade defended Kobe closely…Bryant missed.
3) Kobe fouled Wade and bonked him upside the dome — ouch!!
4) Wade dribbles past Kobe on a backcourt inbounds pass, through a double-team and passes to a wide open teammate in the corner who missed an uncontested 3 to tie the game.
27 points, 9 assists, 5 boards, 2 steals, 2 blocks.
If that’s abuse, D-Wade is truly on another level.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:23 pm
See my man T3. this is why those who look at Box scores and then give some sort of edge to LeBron over Kobe are completely missing the boat. Not that you’re in that vessel, just using the game as an example.
For the game, Wade was 10-22 for 27 points, but actually looking at the game showed what’s what.
When Kobe was out and Wade was in-5:44, Wade went 5-8 and scored 13 points, when Kobe was on him, 35:14, Wade went 5-14 and scored 13 points. And every single basket he scored when Kobe was oon him was off of a screen at the top of the key. Kobe guarded Wade in single coverage on every posession they played together
Meanwhile Kobe was 5-14 true, but the team strategy was, from the get, was to exploit the fact that miami had a smallish front line and that Miami was going to double Kobe on every posession. Kobe simply took what was given him and worked them fools.
Here are a couple of articles about the game and how obe did in fact, chut down the league scoring leader. Now I know basketball fools like Ethan and Tony will peruse the boxscore, look at the fools on Sportscenter and conclude something happened that didn’t. But I KNOW you’re smarter than that.
http://www.miamiherald.com/588/story/848677.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090112
January 13th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
I saw two of those high screen rolls in on the highlights. Nice catch, dude.
January 13th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Great article. Well said.
I think it may be that Wade has some conditioning issues to work with as well. He seemed to perform well at the beginning and end of the game. When you have a guy who guards you that closely for the game, it means you have to be in the kind of shape that only a handful of guys are in — Kobe, Iverson, you name the next guy.
Note: Wade didn’t do something alot of other guys would have done — shoot himself out of the game by jacking 3’s. A number of big name players would have given in to the fatigue and started jacking as a way to alleviate some of the defensive pressure. It looks like he kept playing HIS game and still had a productive game.
This game may really help him to see what it will take to get through this season dragging his team along. There is another level to get to — physically. Then, there’s the 3 game of a West Coast road trip angle. The last time they played in Miami (I missed that game too.) Wade had 35. I don’t know if Kobe’s approach was the same, but the Heat won the game, and Bryant was (-6).
What else you got?
January 13th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Wade is a great player. He’s added a nice mid-range game to go along with his screen roll game and now that he doesn’t flop like a pussy on every possession I don’t hate him quite as much as I did. He’s a true superstar, one of only about 5 guys in the league who aren’t role players.
I didn’t get a chance to watch the first Mia/Lakers game so I can’t comment on what hapened. The point of my post above was to point out the fallacy of the box score and the fact that Kobe is able to shut down players single-handedly that no one in the league can.
And oh yeah.
Fuck Boston!
January 13th, 2009 at 10:46 pm
“And yeah, Monday IS gonna be interesting. You LeBronze jockers are gonna be in for a some reality testing.”
HAHA
Kevdog is killing me….LOL!!!
Anyway brotha Kev thank you for talking to Phil Jackson (with that big old granny chair he is sitting in). That fool finally was feeding big Bynum in the post. That what you are suppose to do. Now lets see if the hippie keeps it up.
Also he needs to sit Radmonovic (sp?) @ss for good. Start Ariza and when walton busta @ss comes back make sure he doesn’t play either. They need to tighten that defense up (they are giving up 99 pts a game). Man I am tired of seeing those dudes get back doored to death.
January 13th, 2009 at 10:47 pm
Temple says
“Note: Wade didn’t do something alot of other guys would have done — shoot himself out of the game by jacking 3’s. A number of big name players would have given in to the fatigue and started jacking as a way to alleviate some of the defensive pressure. It looks like he kept playing HIS game and still had a productive game.”
Thats why I like wades game he is so efficient.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:47 am
Orgin
The Lakers do have defensive problems. I wouldn’t focus so much on their PPG given up as they play at a faster tempo than most clubs. I’d focus on points given up per 100 posessions and defensive FG%. Before tonights game, the Lakers were 6th in the league in defensive FG %. I can’t find the stat per 100 posession but as of a week ago, it was about the same.
The team is capable of playing great D when it wants to, but they take too many defensive posessons off at this point in time. They will have to improve.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:01 am
Not into the NBA much at all…too early for me.
Quick question. KevDog….are you at all worried about the Lakers given that they’ve lost to the Heat once and then used the strategy of defending Wade coast-to-coast with their best player — only to win by 3 vs. a team in the midst of a West Coast road trip?
Is it just too early for all that — and we’ll see what happens when it happens? Holla.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:43 am
Nah, not worried at all. The Heat have some talent and they match up well against the Lakers. but fundamentally, the Lakers have a bullseye on their back because they’re one of the top teams in the league and they’re well, the most hated team in the league. Honestly, the only thing I worry about is health. if we’re as healthy as the teams we face come playoff time, we’ll storm to the title. And that’s not false bravado. I think we have easily the best team with the most talent.
January 15th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
Deion Sanders, one of a few that can talk the talk and walk the walk.
Deion was asked why he never stretched before a game, his response was, “Have you ever seen a cheetah stretch?”
Nuff said.
Jim Brown and Wilt Chamberlain are also up there.
January 15th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
PrimeTime Deion Sanders….w/ Bo Jax coming in a close 2nd.
Prime is the ONLY player to ever hit a homerun and score a TD in the same week. Oh yeah, he could also ball, too.
He redefined the CD position and now EVERY CB in the league is trying to emulate him.
“Deion was asked why he never stretched before a game, his response was, “Have you ever seen a cheetah stretch?””
LOL….classic Deion
January 15th, 2009 at 4:04 pm
What other sports could Deion’s skills translate to?
January 15th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
…oh yeah, i’m taking Wade over Kobe
January 15th, 2009 at 4:07 pm
His fastest time at FSU was 4.21
January 15th, 2009 at 4:08 pm
He ran track @ FSU…
He played Pro-Baseball
He played Pro-Football
He played b-ball in High School in contrast to Lebron playing football in HS
January 15th, 2009 at 4:10 pm
….and from what I hear, he’s not a bad golfer.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
So when it’s all said and done, LeBron doesn’t have a shot to be viewed as one of the best athletes of all time?
He hasn’t touched the surface of his basketball potential. I see him averaging a trip doub for an entire season.
He’s bulling the league based on his almost unlimited athletic ability.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:00 pm
I didn’t make a ridiculous statement like that, mizz…..lol.
I’m just making my argument for Deion.
January 15th, 2009 at 5:10 pm
Dude is a marvel and for some reason he looks to me like he’s still growing. Everytime he takes off his head is at or above the rim. When he takes off it looks like he’s trying to break from the earth’s gravitational pull.
Mizzo-I’m glad to see you an LeBron back on good terms again
January 15th, 2009 at 5:29 pm
GN:
I am a huge Florida State football fan, but I cannot go with Deion for one simple reason. In the area of his primary expertise, football, he was a disinterested tackler. I’m being kind, but for me, that’s a big thing. Tackling is part of the game. His coverage skills were simply unsurpassed. Still, that’s not the entire job. His liability as a tackler was masked in Dallas and San Francisco because those were elite defenses. In Atlanta, not so much.
January 15th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
Yeah that cover had me vexed.
January 15th, 2009 at 6:32 pm
T3,
I can’t argue against the fact that Deion was not a good tackler. But in his prime, it didn’t matter as much because QBs were scared to throw the ball in his direction.
But understand that for everything some players do great, they have things that they don’t do so well. A few examples - Lebron James. Although he’s having his best year at doing it, he’s not a great FT shooter (73 % for his career). Wilt was a ‘freakish’ athlete but he was a terrible FT shooter. Bo Jax was a beast running the ball but he wasn’t known as a RB would would catch the ball out of the backfield. Also, he was an excellent baseball player but fielding the ball was not one of his strengths.
So, my point is that eventhough a player may be a great athlete, he or she may have or will have flaws. But, they’re still great athletes nonetheless.
January 15th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
“Bo Jax was a beast running the ball but he wasn’t known as a RB who would catch the ball out of the backfield.”
Sorry for the typo……
January 16th, 2009 at 1:20 am
Randy Moss people. The guy ran as fast as Deion, is 6′4, has a 51 inch vertical(better then Lebron or even Jordan) was a highschool football, baseball, basketball, and track star. “He’s the best high school athlete i’ve ever seen” “he has the most range out of any centerfielder I have ever seen” “Lets be realistic, Randy Moss is just a better athlete then anyone else on the field” “Watching a 7th grader that could dunk was special” “He is like a taller version of Deion Sanders” “Randy Moss looked like an olympic high hurdler there(as he jumps someone)” That’s just some of the quotes i’ve heard about Randy Moss. Moss could have been a star in Basketball, Football(as he is, 3rd all time in TD passes, a bunch of records), track, baseball, and probably more sports.
I don’t know of another athlete that has his height, speed, verticle, and the rest of his skillset. The only person that is even close is Calvin Johnson.
April 26th, 2009 at 2:14 am
[...] since the LeBron James Friday Fire and LBJ’s subsequent answer to our questions, I’ve received many calls and emails [...]
April 27th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Not saying he’s the best athlete, but deserves to be in this conversation:
Rafael Nadal. Soccer to Tennis. At just over 6 feet, could he play ball like Nash? I think so. Dude is in as good ’shape’ as anyone in the world…
May 18th, 2009 at 11:08 am
[...] his play. He wants what Wade has. He wants what Kobe has. He wants what Chauncey has. He wants what LeBron wants. He wants to saunter into his draft class ring party with shiny cap and gown in [...]
June 5th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
TOTALLY AGREE….RANDY MOSS IS THE BEST ATHLETE OF ALL TIME.
WELL,
RANDY MOSS
BO JACKSON
DEION SANDERS
MICHAEL JORDAN END OF DISCUSSION
January 22nd, 2010 at 3:00 am
Gotta Go With BO JACKSON
Then
JIM THORPE AKA JACOBUS FRANCISCUS