You know, this is one of those misnomers that TOO MANY people seem to be disillusioned by. To be perfectly honest, NEITHER are as “clutch” as the ESPN’s & these lame-brained analysts would lead you to believe, when you actually go look at what they’ve actually done in the “clutch”..

Since 2003

Reg Season game winning free throws: LBJ 23 > kobe 15
Reg Season game winners: LBJ 18-56 (32%) > kobe 19-65 (29%)

Since the 2004-09 Playoffs

Reg Season Game Winners: LBJ 5-10 (50%) > kobe 4-10 (40%)

Total Game Winners since 2003: LBJ 23 = kobe 23

82games.com has tracked & has the most COMPREHENSIVE record of who’s MADE the MOST game winners since ’03. They posted the leaders of this thru 2/4/09. Obviously, there’s been OVER a year of ball played since they’ve updated this, but in order to get a more accurate assessment of this since then for both players, factor in that LBJ’s made 1-6 reg season game winners, to kobe’s 5-9. Also, kobe’s made 3 game winning free throws since 2/4/09, whereas Lebron’s made 9.

Kobe in the ’09 playoffs has only 2 game winning attempts: a missed 3-ptr vs Utah on 4/23/09 & a blocked layup by Turkoglu in the Finals on 6/7/09. LBJ on the other hand was 1-2 in playoff game winners in ’09: his buzzer beater vs Orlando on 5/22/09 & a missed O.T. 3-ptr vs them on 5/26/09.

Factor all of that into the equation & you have the #’s I posted above..

BUT Kobe at this point still has the more polished game. I think it’s safe to say you’d rather have him with the ball in his hands at crunch time as he’s proven over and over again to be able to deliver in cut-throat fashion.

I’m not saying Kobe is better than Bron Bron simply BECAUSE he has four rings. I am saying that he’s more able to take it to another level.

I love LeBron but I need to see that happen this year. Have BronBron beat Kobe in a seven-game series… and COVER Kobe… and I think we’ll be able to end this argument once and for all.

That would be the “only” stat that mattered “if” we were gauging who has more rings, but that’s not the case. Titles are a TEAM accomplishment, not a gauge for an individual’s level of skill & talent in relation to each other..

Robert Horry has 7 rings, does that make him better than MJ? Steve Kerr has 4 rings, does this make him “as good” as Kobe, since he has an equal amount of rings?

Of course not.

I don’t know why kobe fans ALWAYS try to hide behind his rings when he’s mentioned in relation to LBJ or even MJ, but will TOTALLY ignore what these guys have done, and in the case of kobe & LBJ, CONSISTENTLY does on the floor, regarding the “skilled facets” of the game (their production), which is what they SHOULD be looking at when gauging their talents/skill in relation to each other..

Would love your take on this.

http://sportschump.net/2010/02/25/is-lebron-james-too-nice-for-his-own-good/3061/

lol. Conspiracy Theory!? Really, I guess it was just a coincidence that the guy who denied Lebron the game winner in game 1, who happens to be the best defender on the team Mikael Pietris, was put on Sasha Pavlovic. R u f-ing kiding me. That is the worst thing i have ever heard of, it is so retared that Gundy should loose his job right now. I was pointing out something so retarded that it couldn’t be a blunder. It’s like the Spurs putting Tony Parker on Kobe in a last sec effort. Peitris said after Game 1 that his whole mentality was that I was just going to deny Lebron the last shot. And guess what, he did, and Cleveland lost. WTF. That’s all I’m going to say about that, we all knew who was getting the ball.

As I stated before you lacky, your not even on my lvl because you don’t understand basketball at all. Anyone who uses solely stats as their basis for practically anything besides who has the best statistical numbers is an idiot. Plenty of people proved you to be incompetant when it comes to this before me, I’m just here to deliver the killing blow, and try as you might to fight back, you have yet to successfully defeat me in anyone point. When you have failed you haven’t even come back to debate it again. I have to admitt one thing, you did say in your first response that Lebron had better stats in 4 out of 5 years, but you didn’t even realize that. It doesn’t matter at this point however, because I feel this coming to a close, you just don’t want to continue your embarassment. I am sorry if I made you feel bad, but c’mon, ur a grown man, argue like one. Well, I hope you are since you called me son anyway.

again, WTF, i told you I am not interested in repeating anything mentioned before, I think we have had enough stats put on this site, or maybe you want to copy and paste the entire rosters career numbers too. I gave you a few new numbers that worked hand in hand with the point I was trying to prove. That was your so called facts. I used your own stats against you, your own so called facts against you, but I also did something which you stayed away from, I interpretated statistics. So don’t give me the bs you didn’t bring in any facts, most of my facts where your own, it just stumped you to the point to where you couldn’t respond. Either your an idiot, or you can’t read, which I’m betting the second one since you didn’t understand one single thing I have said. Maybe it would have been the other way around, if you had brought any original material.

As i said before, those jokes where me throwing you a bone. I liked you style, but for some reason you took it as arrogance when I was just joking around. Where I am from, word play means a lot. I really was not making fun of you. You humiliate your opponent and then you destroy them, it makes the victory that much sweeter. Your first couple responses, you were trying to debate with me, but you quickly turned defensive by denying the legitamacy of my argument that you just argued. You don’t make sense. When all else fails, deny seems to be you motto. I will check this site one more time, but if this doesn’t change then I will figure I have wasted time talking with you. I was hoping a few people might get involved, but unfortunately, I guess your raw skill scared them away. So this is prob so long StoneCold. Stay up you idiot!

No it hasen’t..U said & I quote: “The better player of the two is [obviously] Kobe.”

That comment wasn’t preceded by a “my opinion is” in order to say it’s your opinion because when U said the word “obviously”, that’s implying that what you’ve stated is an absolute fact..

“Stan van Gundy made a questionable call, almost to the point to where you may think he is on Mike Brown’s payroll.”

More coulda, shoulda woulda’s, with a lame attempt at justifying them with a bunch of “IF’s”..can U for once lay off the conspiracy theories & deal with what actually HAPPENED?

“It’s been fun, but obviously I’m too much for you.”

Typical false bravado, steeped in ignorant-arrogance. U haven’t said or done anything but attribute Lebron’s & orlando’s accomplishments to “theories” & excuses that are slanted towards the other guy/team..like I said, come back when U can deal with the facts..

“Look, I know I”m a dificult oponent”

How difficult can U be if all U can do is toot your own horn about something you’ve YET to present one FACT about? And besides, the word is “op[p]onent”. This lame display of arrogance only HIGHLIGHTS your strategy of side stepping the facts & hurling insults & taunts to mask the fact that your argument ISN’T strong in factual content..

Guys like yourself are ALL alike. When you’re pinned by the FACTS, the plethora of personal attacks are sure to come. Next, the elaborate excuses will start. After that, you’ll try to credit “conspiracy theories” for the “Individual” success of the guy who’s in “opposition” to your “claims” or discredit his coaches decision making.

When U see that won’t work, you’ll attack the messenger as if we made up the other guys individual body of work & claim they don’t mean or prove anything LOL!!

U guys are TOO predictable..I have ya M.O. down to a science..

Your also an idiot because you haven’t heard a single thing I have said. I never suggested that stats are worthless or that they don’t represent the best in the league. I said that them alone are worthless. I used yours and others stats as something understood. I won’t repeat what has come before me, unlike many who repeat what they hear on tv, but its okay, that’s what we are tought to do. What is a test, a measuring stick to see how much of the information the teacher just gave you can tell them back, or show them back. Your in now way creative nor innovative. I have heard people argue your point with the same logic. That is why it was so easy to dismantle you silly self. Grow up, and grow some balls, and when you get some originaly material, come see me, because today was a sad display of you stupidity. I feel for you

Oh, and whats up with ur post, is it bc i was nice to you. Have I completely traversed your autistic head. If you truely felt the way your last posts seems to suggest, then you wouldn’t have gone after me in the first place. Oh, and for the last time bucket head, I hate Kobe, but I definitely would not want him on the other team before Lebron. Lebron’s gaurdable, its just the Lebron rule flaring up at times, but even the best defenders in the league can’t stop Kobe’s jumpshot. They take away the most important sense in basketball from him, his sight, and he still hits the shot. It’s like he is unconsciuos or something. That’s part of the reason he is the better player to me. I am a Spurs fan. When we swept Cleveland, we shut down either Lebron, or his supporting cast, mainly due to Poppovich’s geniuos. When we got beat by the Lakers last year, we didn’t have an answer for Kobe. Bruce Bowen shut him down in the first half, but we started Udoka on him the second and he took off and went on to stump us in the series. That’s why, and that’s why you will hear Poppovich say Kobe is the best player on the planet. BTW, if you use statistical data only like before, you are setting yourself up to fail in most things. The real world doesn’t work like that, you have to think critically. You sound around 40, so I thought you would’ve known that by now. It’s been fun, but obviously I’m too much for you.

Come back when U have a LEGITIMATE argument that’s soundly based on FACTUAL information, rather than your obscure “opinions”..

You’re the TYPICAL homer..

Left to U fools to tell it, the FACTS “never” mean what they say & only apply when they’re slighted towards your silly “opinion” of the person you’re advocating for..

Go Spurs Go

As in, if ur gonna throw in stats then also use common sense when interpreting them. D-Wade is a 2 and Lebron is a 3. There is no way he should have more blocks than him. And the way Lebron bulls over people coupled with his athleticism, he should have more steals as well. Now, u see wat I just did. I gave u stats, but i also interpreted it. I just figured we all knew that D-Wade played shooting gaurd while Lebron played Small Forward, guess i overestimated ur intelligence. As for the rest of your statement on this matter, i already proved my point. When u used ur stats u just threw them out, without interpreting them. Mine had an understood interpretation, but again, I overestimated u. I never said stats where completely worthless like some people on here, just that you also have to interpret them as well, and if you don’t want to do that then i will continue making u look like an autistic carpenter(random insult, sorry if it offends you, makes me laugh).

I believe we discussed the overall stats over the last four years, yet in your response you put in five. I have no clue y, maybe ur autism was flaring up again. BTW, it was a lie, u admitt urself that Kobe was better in 2007. Two years ago, in the span of four. Your bisted on that account. Also, i wanted to ask you what the like “23.1 PER” thing is, idk wat it is, nor what u mean. I also thought it was funny when you gave the nod to one after the stats, but only added “better overall production and more efficiency” to only Lebrons. So let me add the same to Kobe. Be uniform all the way through or it makes you look slanted. And honestly, in a few of those years it looks like Kobe shot a better pct than Lebron if u calculate true shooting percentage. Not sure if u did, just pointing that out. But anyway, Kobe was better in 2007, so you did lie.
okay, i know its efficiency rating now.

lol, where did u get that definition from, NBA 2K9. It looks quite similar is all. But yeah, people do think it is the best gauge, statisticly. There is no stat for how many double teams u draw per game, how game planned against you are which effectively opens up the game for ur team mates. These are the underlying things which i was reffering to. Your over 25 is BS. You mean outside shooting gaurds, like Kobe, who can also slash. But Lebron doesn’t have this problem since he is still developing his outside jumpshot. Gaurds like Tony Parker don’t have a prob with fg pct. Matter of fact, he sometimes leadds the league.

Sorry my good man but if you going to use stats, u can find them at NBA.com. Otherwise i don’t care. There is no point going anywhere else when this is the official site. We can then cut out the false stat quoting like you did on the Scottie Pippen thing a while back, giving him 3000 points.lol. Ur a joke. I’m not gonna bother looking up the stats per season stuff until u get it from nba.com

Oh and never call me son when you get tore up like that. It makes you look retarded.

Me to you is like a father giving his three year old autistic son a lesson in manners. Know you facts before you step in with me, otherwise you look quite retarded. I’m not picking on you, I just think that its fun going back and forth you know. So plz, respond back, and save ur rep!

Oh really? Then why’d U say & I quote: “It’s like saying Lebron is a better defensive player than DWade. It’s laughable, when he averaged more blocks and more steals than him (bk1.34-1.15) (st2.19-1.69).”

Gee…what told U that? How’d U know he avg’d more blocks & steals, which lead U to deem him (wade) “bettter” on the defensive end?

I’ll tell U what told U: a STAT DID that’s what!!

It’s amazing to hear U idiots depict them as some random, made up #’s that don’t mean or prove anything, then turn right around & use them to make & prove your point LOL!!

“And as far as Lebron avg more stats than Kobe the last four years, we all know thats a lie”

2005 avg’s

Lebron: 27ppg 7apg 7rpg 47% FG% “25.7″
Kobe: 27ppg 6apg 5rpg 44% FG% “23.3 PER”

** Advantage Lebron; more efficient & better overall production

2006 avg’s

Lebron: 31ppg 6apg 7rpg 48% FG% “28.1 PER”
Kobe: 35ppg 5apg 4rpg 45% FG% “28.0 PER”

** AGAIN, advantage Lebron; “more efficient” & better overall. Kobe took 27 FG attempts just to shoot 45%?

2007 avg’s

Lebron: 27ppg 6apg 6rpg 47% FG% “24.5 PER”
Kobe: 31ppg 5apg 5rpg 46% FG% “26.1 PER”

** Advantage kobe

2008 avg’s

Lebron: 30ppg 7apg 7rpg 48% FG% “29.1 PER”
Kobe: 28ppg 6apg 5rpg 45% FG% “24.2 PER”

** Advantage Lebron; more efficient & better overall production

2009 avg’s

Lebron: 28ppg 7apg 7rpg 48% FG% “31.7 PER”
Kobe: 26ppg 4apg 5rpg 46% FG% “25.6 PER”

** Yet once AGAIN, advantage Lebron; more efficient & better overall production

I keep “highlighting” the PER (player efficiency rating) because it’s the BEST gauge of OVERALL skill & contribution to one’s team given the fact that it accounts for one’s ppg, apg, rpg, spg, bpg & FG%.

Big men typically & consistently garner the BEST PER ratings due to FG%’s & because of that, it’s virtually IMPOSSIBLE for perimeter players to CONSISTENTLY produce PER ratings “OVER” 25..the ONLY perimeter player I saw consistently do this was MJ. In fact he’s #1 ALL TIME in PER..as a guard LOL!!

“Your stats are suspect to the point to where I don’t know where you got them.”

All of this stuff is readily available on basketball-reference.com Stop being so goddamn lazy & actually go do some damn research LOL!!

It’s EASY to just “try” & discredit the on-court production of a player, when they contradict what U “think” or “believe” about them LOL!!

FACTS ARE FACTS!! Deal with it son..