Friday Fire: Who Starts in Your All Time Baseball Lineup?
My adviser and I had a conversation after Rickey Henderson and Jim Rice were elected into the MLB Hall of Fame. We thought it was ridiculous Rickey wasn’t the first unanimous choice strictly because of his impact on the game. Anyone steal 130 bases lately? Nah. How about 2190 walks? Didn’t think so. You walked him, he scored and he shook up your pitcher and entire defense in the process. Anyway, does Rickey crack your all time lineup? This was my adviser’s lineup: RF Aaron, CF Mays, LF Henderson, 3B Rose, SS Banks, 2B Morgan, 1B Ruth, P Ryan, C Bench. I added a manager, right and left handed pitchers and a closer. No position changes in the outfield.
1st base: Babe Ruth
2nd base: Joe Morgan
Shortstop: Ernie Banks
3rd base: Michael Jack Schmidt
Left Field: Rickey Henderson
Center Field: Willie Mays
Right Field: Hank Aaron
Catcher: Josh Gibson
Right Handed Pitcher: Bob Gibson
Left Handed Pitcher: Sandy Koufax
Closer: Mariano Rivera
Manager: Joe Torre
Bonds doesn’t crack my lineup because IMO Rickey was more versatile and better defensively.
My list:
1B – Hank Aaron
2B – Joe Morgan
SS – Ozzie Smith
3B – George Brett
RF – Rickey Henderson
CF – Willie Mays
LF – Barry Bonds
C – Josh Gibson
LHP – Sandy Koufax
RHP – Satchel Paige
Closer – Dennis Eckersley
Manager – Sparky Anderson
I will have to disagree w/ Henderson being a better outfielder than Bonds though. Henderson was the most versatile between the two but Barry had the better glove (Eight gold-gloves to Rickey’s 1).
No position changes brotha. Rickey spent most of his career in left. From what I personally witnessed, I’d go with Rickey in left. It’s definitely a tossup. Bonds has over 50 more assists and his unintentional walk total is a season of at bats but Rickey was just electrifying. I loved him in Toronto.
I’m gonna do mine in starting lineup order.
1. Ichiro Suzuki RF (L)
2. Willie Mays CF (R)
3. Mike Schmidt 3B (R)
4. Barry Bonds LF (L)
5. Henry Aaron 1B (R)
6. Joe Morgan 2B (L)
7. Ivan Rodriguez C (R)
8. Ozzie Smith SS (L)
9. Bob Gibson P (R)
Man, the no position change rule made this difficult. It forced me to leave Rickey Henderson, Alex Rodriguez, and Tony Gwynn out of my lineup.
SORRY FELLAS, I CAN’T MAKE A LINEUP WITH PLAYERS I’VE NEVER SEEN PLAY SO HERE IS MY STARTING LINEUP…..
C- IVAN RODRIGUEZ
1B- DON MATTINGLY
2B- CRAIG BIGGIO
SS- OZZIE SMITH
3B- CAL RIPKEN, JR.
LF- REGGIE JACKSON
CF- RICKEY HENDERSON
RF- KIRBY PUCKETT
P- NOLAN RYAN
My list:
1B – Hank Aaron – {played RF, LF, 3B, 1B}
2B – Joe Morgan
SS – Ozzie Smith
3B – George Brett
RF – Willie Mays {played RF & CF}
CF – Rickey Henderson {played CF & LF}
LF – Barry Bonds
C – Josh Gibson
LHP – Sandy Koufax
RHP – Satchel Paige
Closer – Dennis Eckersley
Manager – Sparky Anderson
mkrob:
Happy New Year, bruh…been awhile.
Ripken at 3B? Aside from the fact that he’s a pure compiler who had 7 of the worst seasons of any Hall of Famer (remember those 7 years in his PRIME when he hit between .252 and .264 — yuck!!!), he played a only small percentage of his games at 3rd, most at short.
Maybe you wanna go with Schmidt or Brett or Brooks R.?
Mizzo:
Here’s my crew. One thing, though, you’ve gotta put Babe Ruth in the outfield. Lou Gehrig was the Yankees 1st basemen during those years that Ruth established his legend.
C — Josh Gibson
1B — Albert Pujols
2B — Jackie Robinson
SS — Alex Rodriguez
3B — Mike Schmidt
LF — Rickey Bonds
CF — Willie Mays
RF — Roberto Clemente
RP — Bob Gibson
LP — Sandy Koufax
Closer — Mariano Rivera
Manager — Billy Martin
My real left fielder would be Bonds — with this lineup. Robinson, Clemente, Mays, and Rodriguez give me enough speed to raise a little hell on the bases.
Batting Order:
1 — Jackie Robinson
2 — Roberto Clemente
3 — Willie Mays
4 — Barry Bonds
5 — Josh Gibson
6 — Albert Pujols
7 — Alex Rodriguez
8 — Mike Schmidt
I love Joe Morgan, but I’ve got to go with Jackie. As for Rickey’s superiority over Bonds in LF, I agree. But with Mays and Clemente in the outfield, I could play Barry in the bleachers and cover the outfield just fine. I decided to scrap the Segregation Era players (except for Gibson) so that leaves many players off the list.
This is a foxhole team from the manager on down, except for A-Rod. I might have to ditch him for Ernie Banks.
I might have to put together an All-Time Great Rabblerouser Squad.
T3,
You have “Rickey Bonds” as your LF. Was that intentional?
Your list is ‘fire’…..with the exception of A-Rod. While he tears it up in the reg. season, he is MIA in the post-season, which i’m sure you know. Still, the list is tight, even with A-Rod.
I contemplated putting Pujols on my list and would have if not for Hank Aaron being able to play 1B. That’s the ONLY reason why I left him off.
I forgot to include my batting order:
Batting Order:
1 – Rickey Henderson
2 – George Brett
3 – Barry Bonds
4 – Josh Gibson
5 – Hank Aaron
6 – Willie Mays
7 – Joe Morgan
8 – Ozzie Smith
GN:
Definitely intentional. Read it all the way through. I clarified that my “real” LF is Bonds. I was just trying to give Rickey some love.
Also, I know about A-Rod’s limits…hence the real consideration about dumping him for Mr. Let’s Play Two.
Funny story: I was driving with my family this summer. We were leaving midtown Manhattan and heading toward Brooklyn. I decided to drive down 5th Avenue and take the scenic route. 5 seconds down the road, my wife goes, “Hey, isn’t that A-Rod!!” It was.
He was walking alone up 5th Avenue (the traffic runs south in the opposite direction), and bopping as if he was listening to a concert in his head (or had just left Madonna’s crib) — and wearing a bright yellow T-shirt. It seemed to me to be the perfect symbol of his tenure in New York.
He was visible, but invisible. He was right in the heart of the city, but moving against traffic. He was surrounded by people, but alone. I’ve never warmed up to him. For me, much of it had to do with comments re: Jeter (which were arguably decontextualized). Either way, his post-season failings have always been a barrier. I never felt the team needed him (much like my All-Time team). Still, when he’s out there and you look at the numbers — how do you leave him off?
BTW — wrote a preview of the Steeler-Raven game. Check it out.
That is a funny story. I wonder if A-Rod regrets not going to play w/ the Red Sox after everything that has happened during his tenure in NY? He’ll probably say he doesn’t but I think that deep down he does.
Checking out the Steeler-Raven preview after I make this post.
I said to myself that the way the A-Rod signing went down, the Yankees had reversed the Curse of the Bambino. Sure enough. Two Bosox World Series championships later, the Yankees are moving into a new stadium after frantically rushing to keep Red Sox memorabilia from being buried in the foundation.
The team looks great for 2009, but if the curse is truly reversed, it could be a long season.
LF- Barry Bonds
CF- Andruw Jones
RF- Henry Aaron
3B- Mike Schmidt
SS- Alex Rodriguez
2B- Joe Morgan
1B- Leon Durham (watched a lot of WGN in the ’80s)
C- Josh Gibson
LP- Steve Carlton
RP- Greg Maddux
Closer- John Smoltz
Eclectic I know but hey, you like who you like.
I’ve never seen George Brett play, i’ve just heard stories. I can’t go by that when it comes to my team.
Harvey, are you related to Leon Durham.
Moving on…
C — Josh Gibson
1B — Albert Pujols
2B — Jackie Robinson
SS — Ozzie Smith
3B — AROD
LF — Barry Bonds (even Rickey can’t supplant Barry)
CF — Willie Mays
RF — Babe Ruth
RP — Satch
LP — Sandy
Relief — Mariano Rivera
Manager — Billy Martin
T3, oddly enough I didn’t think of Albert Pujols until you mentioned him… crazy…
Overall, we share similar lists, with one very big exception
Listen, I feel terrible picking this fight because Roberto Clemente is one of the greatest human beings who ever lived. He was a phenomenal defender with a great arm, but offensively he is highly overrated for all-time discussions. He never hit 30 HRs in a season, and had only two 100 RBI years. Clemente could hit for average, but drew very few walks and had a career OBP of .359. Despite his TV image of baserunning to 3rd base, he rarely stole bases.
Now defensively, he rivals the best ever, but all around I can probably think of 10 right fielders better than Clemente.
“Influence to the game” is completely another story all together (in the discussion after Jackie)
mizzo, what is an “advisor” and how do i get one?
MODI:
Okay. I thought about that. Clemente was before my time — but he was my father’s favorite player. I can see you taking other guys. Clemente was a phenomenal defender. I really value Right Field defense (and CF defense, obviously) because of the impact it has on games. Tony Gwynn works for me too. A guy who can cover a lot of ground and throw out or halt aggressive runners is legend.
Upon closer inspection, I’d be more than willing to substitute my own favorite player (right now) — Vladimir Guerrero.
The problem with LF is that you have guys named Musial and Williams that also played out there. I would pick either of those guys before both Rickey or Bonds, but it would be close. Four of the best players of all-time right there.
And I can see picking Banks as a SS (even though he played more games at 1B), but what is with picking Ruth and Aaron as 1B? Ruth played 32 games at 1B and Aaron logged 210 games there. Hey, Aaron also played 43 games at 2B! Why not include him there? C’mon!
My choices:
1 – Ty Cobb (CF)
2 – Joe Morgan (2B)
3 – Babe Ruth (RF)
4 – Ted Williams (LF)
5 – Lou Gehrig (1B)
6 – Mike Schmidt (3B)
7 – Johnny Bench (C)
8 – Honus Wagner (SS)
P – Walter Johnson (SP)
You are correct in my wrongful placement of Ruth at 1st. Put Gehrig there instead.
I’m curious in your list. How can you list Teddy Ballgame higher than both Bonds and Henderson, Cobb higher than Mays and Mantle–or Griffey Jr. for that matter? Are you that much of a traditionalist? Just asking for your personal criteria…nothing personal.
Honus Wagner and Walter Johnson? Dude they played with the game was lily White. No Asians, Blacks or Latinos to speak of. They might have played the game, but they didn’t advance the competition because they weren’t challenged physically, mentally and psychologically by varied counterparts.
Blacks finally playing changed offense and defense with the threat of the stolen base. Lou Brock and Maury Wills were big parts of what 5 title teams? Cobb going over 4000 and hitting .367 for a career is nice but there is just no way of telling if those numbers are inflated.
There’s no way of knowing how good any of those players were besides Ruth (because he was so much more dominant than his peers).
IMO that entire era is dead and it’s not the fault of the players. That’s just life. Baseball must pay for its past or its future will be a lie as well.
That’s why all this bs about Bonds, Clemens and Big Mac is just that. How in the hell are stats counted when there was straight and ungodly racism?
“Uh…no nigger…you can’t play.”
“Why?”
“Because you’re a nigger.”
“Is that all? I can hit the ball a lot harder and run down those doubles in the gap before they hit the ground faster than most of you.”
“Get your Black skin over there and play with Rube on Sundays. I’m sure he has a spot for your watermelon eatin’ ass.”
“I don’t wanna hit when Satchel is pitching. I’d rather face Walter Johnson because his arm is falling off because of all the innings he’s pitched. How can he get off the mound and field my bunt before I slide into second?”
“That’s it Can’t get right! Go on over there and play with the other convicts on the chain gang.”
Dude the above conversation is hypothetical, but that’s just how racist it was in America. Mental and physical superiority meant nothing. You might as well have been dead because you got no run in the Bronx when Casey was coaching.
Is it all about athleticism? Of course not but looking at the career power and speed numbers is indicative of how easily Blacks have adapted to the game.
There’s no telling how many minorities (or not) would be atop every statistical category if they’d been allowed to play.
Now, I’ll say that it’s maybe wrong for me to say the era is dead…because it has it’s place, but IMO it’s just like any era. It’s not to be taken too seriously for history’s sake.
@Mizzo – I happen to believe that Ted Williams might be the best hitter of all-time. And he missed a significant time to two wars. Bonds on pure numbers alone may be better, but I’m still trying to wrap my head around his PED involvement. Rickey is a great choice too, but I look at Teddy Ballgame’s numbers and I think he wins out. Take another look at his statistics (and Stan Musial) when you get a chance. He was an incredible hitter. Maybe the best of all-time.
As for including Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Johnson and Wagner in my choices…yeah, I’m a bit of a sucker for the mythical giants of yore. And these guys were giants! If you love Rickey’s numbers than you should love Cobb’s numbers. I don’t have to defend either Ruth or Gehrig as both are right there as the best players to ever play their position. So is Wagner, in my opinion. .327/.391/.496 for his career with 3400+ hits and 1700+ runs and RBI. Incredible numbers for anyone, let alone a SS.
The argument against these guys because they didn’t play in an integrated league should work both ways. If you can’t see yourself voting for these guys then you should also leave Josh Gibson off because he didn’t play against the full field. Right? You say that there is no way to judge how good these players were besides Ruth. That is true (although I would include Ruth in there with them). But you have no idea how good Gibson would have been either.
While we can’t judge how these “dead era” (your term) players would have done had the league been integrated, we can judge them against other players from the same period. And Cobb, Ruth, Gehrig, Wagner and Johnson dominated. Absolutely dominated. Just as Gibson did in the Negro Leagues.
I basically filled my list with the best players statistically in the Major Leagues regardless of the era. Players I would have loved to have seen play. That is what is wonderful about baseball. The arguments. Cobb vs. Mays vs. Mantle. Ruth vs. Aaron vs. Clemente. Wagner vs. A-Rod vs. Banks. Hornsby vs. Robinson vs. Morgan. Johnson vs. Gibson vs. Maddux. All great choices, all with their fans.
It is why baseball is such a great sport.
Thank you for a great response. You just have to understand that while the dead era White players got all the shine, there were generations of Black players who we’ll never know.
That’s a big problem for me for if those players were allowed to be relevant, then the game would have advanced a lot more so by now.
Those players had great numbers but so did Oscar Charleston, Sol White, Leon Day and Coooool Papa.
I don’t think there is a lot of respect for the game at large or someone like Buck would have been enshrined while he was alive.
There are a lot of players enshrined who have lesser numbers than Pop Pop.
I cried like a little girl (with all due respect of course) when Buck died because his family would not be afforded the honor (society wise, not personal) that he deserved.
Bob Gibson changed the game, but rarely do you hear his name mentioned as possibly the best pitcher of all time.
Thanks for coming to the site but it’s really tough for me to turn a blind eye to the past where so many grandchildren have died without knowing just how good their family members were playing a game that’s supposed to be America’s past time.
I hear you.
And Buck’s death affected me deeply as well. No one had more reverence and general fondness for the game than Buck. He was a national monument unto himself. It’s a crime he didn’t get into the Hall while he was alive. I think he would have enjoyed it more than anyone.
FYI, I would include Bob Gibson as one of the best pitchers of all-time. I love reading stories about how he pitched and the game is sorely missing that today. If I were creating a five-man pitching roster from every era he and Sandy would probably be on it.
Just to throw my hat in the ring on the question of integration…
When we had this conversation eons ago, I noted that the National League integrated far more rapidly than did the American League. Moreover, while the National League was integrating, new powers emerged in the NL – the Dodgers, Giants, Cardinals…while traditional AL powers like the Yankees, Tigers and others were receding.
It is worth mentioning that from 1949 through 1980, the overwhelming majority of MVPs in the NL were Black (either US-born English speakers or Caribbean/South American-born Spanish speakers). Given that Jackie Robinson was universally recognized as less than the best player in the Negro Leagues, I believe a strong case can be made that the results of existing MLB players would have been more significantly impacted by integration than vice versa.
Negro League legends were not sustained based on their statistics. Josh Gibson isn’t legendary because of the number of homers he hit — as if someone knows the number. The same goes for Satchel Paige. Negro League legends were built and sustained through recollections of real competition with Black AND White players. It has been the anecdotes and recollections of barnstorming tours vs. white players, as much as anything, that has cemented the legend of Negro League players. They demonstrated on the field that they could compete (they won most of the games).
It was the MLB players who’s legends have been sustained by statistics — and they were the ones who played in a league diluted of talent because it was stuffed with Affirmative Action whites incapable of winning jobs against superior Black players (whether they were US or Caribbean/South American born.)
There is an assumption that the Negro Leagues were not as talented (overall) as the Major Leagues, but that’s an assessment that eludes quantification. It could be argued that there were certainly enough high-quality baseball players in the 1940′s in Black America and in the Dominican and Puerto Rico and Venezuela and Cuba to have made “whites” a minority in their very own game — even then. So, the Black players who emerged from that crucible of competition were not necessarily playing the same watered-down game that Major Leaguers were playing.
Every time someone does a retrospective you hear the same story…this player wasn’t the best, that player wasn’t the best — and usually economics or a character flaw intrudes to derail that player. Nonetheless, we live in an age where players like Manny Ramirez, Albert Pujols, Alex Rodriguez and Johan Santana can play…it wasn’t always that way…but they clearly learned the game in rich, mature indigenous leagues as youth (here and abroad) filled with men who damn sure could have played against the legends that American statisticians produced.
For me, it’s as simple as looking at Citibank’s bottom line — it’s all welfare…I’m not impressed.
Rickey was a great player, one of the best of all time, but no one who watched either him or Barry can say Rickey was a better fielder. Bonds was a superb fielder–like Mays he rarely dived for balls because his postioning, instincts, speed and routes were routinely first-rate. Barry did the two things that make him the G-POPE (greates player on planet earth): hit the most HRs and made the fewest outs. No one comes close in the modern game. You have to pick Barry over Rickey, that is no slam on Rickey, who would start in LF in any other lineup. Schmidt at 3B, A-Rod at SS, Morgan at 2B, McCovey at 1B, Bench catching, Mays in CF, Aaron in RF. Albert Pujols will likely supplant Willie Mac, but I’m holding on to a childhood fave. Some will quibble with A-Rod at SS but his bat is so much more valuable than anyone else’s in that position he has to be listed.
Temple3:
Your father is spot on re. Clemente. MODI means well, probably just a mild case of sabremetric overload. Suggest you Google the following: 1. ‘Clemente played in an airport’ 2. ‘Clemente overrated’ at the Baseball Think Factory …you’ll have to sift thru about 62 entries before you get to David Speed’s entries which are so telling . FYI, Clemente has what evidently is the highest batting success against hall of famers (approx. 1200+ab with a avg. of only .009 less than his actual lifetime ba. Clemente was ‘The greatest show in town’ would you risk injury to him stealing bases when he was the ONLY reason people went to Pirate games! OBP…well if you saw the greatest pitching arsenal assembled in the history of baseball in 60′s National League taking strikes in hopes for a walk was near folly;you better be swingin and believe me the fans didn’t want to see Roberto do anything but swing the bat. Clemente is and was a legend. Only Mays can compare in terms of ALL AROUND.
Gehrig @ first. Hornsby@ second. Wagner @ short. Matthews @third. Cobb in left. Jackson in center. Ruth in right. Williams the DH. Pitchers: Grove, W. Johnson , Spahn, and G.C. Alexander!
For my alltime lineup I’d have to go with Barry in his prime over Rickey b/c of his defense in LF. Both walked more than Marco Polo and stole more than Enron – which is why I have Barry leading off. And IMO, they both get the slight nod over Teddy Ballgame in LF b/c of their defense. However, Ted would be the ultimate DH.
1- LF Barry Bonds (L) [700/500 - no one else is even 400/400]
2- 2B Rogers Hornsby (R) [2nd highest career avg at .358]
3- DH Ted Williams (L) [career .344 avg/won Triple Crown twice]
4- 1B Jimmie Foxx (R) [1933 Triple Crown winner: .356/48/163]
5- RF Babe Ruth (L) [would easily surpass 250 rbi in this lineup]
6- CF Willie Mays (R) [greatest 5-tool player ever]
7- 3B George Brett (L) [13x allstar gets nod over Schmidt]
8- SS Honus Wagner (R) [stil regarded as greatest SS ever]
9- C Yogi Berra (L) [15x allstar won 10 rings and 3 MVPs!!]
RHP – Christy Mathewson
LHP – Sandy Koufax
Bench: Rickey, Jackie Robinson and Johnny Bench.
Rickey Henderson LF (best I ever saw!)
Ken Griffey Jr CF (in his prime no contest)
Ruth RF (who can argue the Bambino)
George Brett 3B (watch the pine tar incident and tell me he wasn’t a gamer)
AROD SS (I hate him with a passion, but he is good)
Morgan 2B (simply the best)
Gehrig 1B (the man has a disease named after him, that’s big time)
Ivan Rodriguez SS (I certainly can’t steal a base off of him)
Nolan Ryan SP (one bad MF’er)
Dennis Eckersly Relief (gotta love the mustache)
Manager Lasorda ( I just like the guy)
C- Johnny Bench
1B- Albert Pujols
2B- Rogers Hornsby
SS- Alex Rodriguez
3B- Mike Schmidt
LF- Ted Williams
CF- Ty Cobb
RF- Hank Aaron
DH- Babe Ruth
Righty- Nolan Ryan
Lefty- Warren Spahn
Closer- Mariano Rivera
forgot bench players:
Lou Gerig
Jimmie Foxx
Stan Musial
This line-up would be unbeatable:
2b Rogers Hornsby
ss Honus Wagner
1b Lou Gehrig
cf Wille Mays
rf Hank Aaron
lf Babe Ruth
3b Mike Schmidt
c Johnny Bench
p Sandy Kofax
How come nobody talks about rogers hornsby at second? people should really go back and look at his numbers, they were astounding, and in the dead ball era.
i think the there are two fair questions to ask here
is there a dh?
are we putting together the best “lineup” or the best players to play the position?
i think Rickey is the in the best lineup conversation because he was the best leadoff hitter ever, with ty cobb having painted the way for him. was he the best left fielder/over all player of all time, maybe not. but i cant imagine another person in history i would rather have lead off. with that i submit my post:
1. R. Henderson
2. R. Hornsby
3. W. Mays
4. B. Ruth(at dh if i have the option)
5. Mike Schmidt
6. L. Gherig (if puljols doesnt get busted for steroids, he will be here)
7. H. Wagner
8. J. Bench
9. H. Aaron (in left if i cant dh) obviously the pitcher if not
again, that’s the best LINEUP i can think of. i think best players at each position would look differently.
I will also post my best players at each position for the other side of the coin:
C: J. Bench
1b:Gherig (again puljols will be here if he doesnt get busted)
2b:Hornsby
3b:Schmidt
ss:Wagner
LF:Aaron (arguably the hardest position to determine) f. robinson and T. Williams are right there.
CF: Mays (in the top three for best PLAYER period)
RF: Ruth
SP W. JohnsonRH C. Matthewson LH
RP G. Gossage for set up and R. Fingers for closer
i would also like to post my all time defense by position:
C-Bench
1b-k. hernendaz
2b-R. alomar (nobody i have seen or heard had better range)
3b-B. robinson (only no brainer on this list)
SS-H. Wagner (apparently played the position for a few years BAREHANDED!
RF-R. Clemente (best outfield arm of all time?)
LF-Richie Ashburn
CF- Willie Mays
P- Greg Maddux or Catfish Hunter
Best Utility player ever: P. Rose, who would also be my pinch hitter
I would also like to post a question in case you all check this soon, im an astros fan and i want to know :
Is Carlos Lee the worst outfielder you have ever seen? I have given consideration to manny, but after seeing lee up close, other then in the batters box, he is totally useless. (on the bases and in the field)
Ty Cobb CF
Rogers Hornsby 2B
Babe Ruth RF
Barry Bonds DH (but Willie Mays if steroid-free)
Ted Williams LF
Alex Rodriquez SS (but Honus Wagner if steroid-free)
Lou Gehrig 1B (but soon to be replaced by Puhols)
Mike Schmidt 3B
Johnny Bench C
Walter Johnson P
excellent lineup, i cant put bonds anywhere on my list because of indisputable proof of steroids. same with a-rod, and i have a feeling puljols will end up there also. Ty Cobbs numbers are staggering, i wish i could have seen him play.
1. RF Ichiro
2. SS Jeter
I thinks its a very good team you cant go wrong really.My team would look like this.
2b.Rogers Hornsby
ss.Alex Rodriguez
Rf.Babe Ruth
1b.Lou Gehrig
Lf.Barry Bonds
Cf.Willie Mays
3B.Jimmie Foxx
C.Mike Piazza
P.Walter Johnson
P.Sandy Koufax
I think its only fair to leave a top Negro league team since there were some players just as great as some of the major league ball players.My Negro League lineup would go like this.
ss.Willie Wells
3b.Judy Johnson
C.Josh Gibson
1b.Mule Suttles
Cf.Oscar Charleston
Rf.Chino Smith
Lf.Cool PaPa Bell
2b.Martin Dihigo
P.Satchel Paige
P.Big Bill Foster
I have to say by using Barry Bonds and Alex Rodriguez on my alltime team im not going against any type of drugs or alcohol or gambling some player may of used during there career because in the early days of baseball there was wide spread gambling and alcohol usage all the way up into the 1930′s and 1940′s.Then in the 1960′s there was marijuana usage by some top players and in the 1970′s there was different types of drugs used by great players cocaine being the biggest in that era.Then you get into the late 1980′s and into the 1990′s till today you have steroid usage i dont take any of those things into account because i would have to take it all into account and it would incriminate some of the best ball players of alltime for one or another usage of some form.
I wanted to mention other Negro league players that were some of the better players that would of did well in the Big Leagues though there seasons were shorter played were
1b. Jud Nelson-Balt
1b.Buck Leonard-Homestead
2b.Tubby Scales-NY
2b.Rev Cannady-NY
ss.Dobie Moore-KC
ss.Homrun Johnson-NY
3b.John Beckwith-Balt- First negro league player to hit 3 homeruns in a game off of major league pitching against Rube Walberg of the A’s IN 1928.
3b.Ray Dandridge-Newark
Lf.Oscar Heavy Johnson-KC
Lf.Frog Redus-STL
Cf.Turkey Stearnes-DET
Cf.Willard Brown-KC
Cf.Cristobal Torriente-CHIC
Rf.Wild Bill Wright-BALT
Rf.Rap Dixon-Harrisburg
Rf.Charles Blackwell-STL
C.Biz Mackey-Hilldale
C.Luis Santop-NY
C.T.J. Young-KC
C.Spoony Palm-STL
P.Hilton Smith-KC
P.Slim Jones-PHIL
P.Max Manning-Newark
P.Smoky Joe Williams-NY
P.John Donaldson-KC
P.Bullet Joe Rogan-KC
P.Leon Day-Newark
P.Bill Byrd-Balt
P.Dick Redding-NY
P.Frank Wickware-CHIC
P.Leroy Matlack-PITTS
P.Ted Trent-STL
P.Nip Winters-Hilldale
P.Dave Brown-CHIC
P.Ray Brown-Homestead
P.Webster Mcdonald-PHIL
P.William Bell-KC
P.Chet Brewer-KC
P.Jose Mendez-KC
P.Tom Williams-CHIC
P.Rube Foster-CHIC
P.Bill Holland-NY
P.Eggie Hensley-STL
These were most of the elite players to play in the Negro Leagues though there were other very good ball players.
i agree about the negro league players there werre a lot of good ones but unfourtonly you cant include them not enough data
my lp gerigh;lazzeri;jetter,arod;ruth;dimaggio;mantle;berra;mattinglyford;gomez.rugging;guidry;riveria;gossage;lylr;rhiggeti
C- Bench
1st- Gehrig
2nd- Hornsby
SS- Smith
3rd- Schmidt
LF- Williams
CF-Mays
RF- Ruth
SP- Gibson
RP- Rivera
Everyone on here is convinced that Henderson desrves to be on this list. The guy was a great ball player but compared to the impac and statiatics of the other players included in the conversation, he’s not even close. He was a great leadoff hitter and a great basestealer but to compare him to Ted Williams is unbelievable. Ted was considered to be the greatest hitter of his era along with DiMaggio, along with playing a strong left field. HEnderson is not even close to Williams or Mays or Ruth for a starting spot on the all time lineup
1.) Ichiro Suzuki-RF
2.) Willie Mays -CF
3.) Albert Pujols -1B
4.) Barry Bonds -LF
5.) Babe Ruth -DH
6.) Alex Rodriguez -SS
7.) George Brett -3B
8.) Johnny Bench -C
9.) Joe Morgan -2B
Bench:
Ted Williams
Ricky Henderson
Rogers Hornsby
Josh Gibson
Mike Schmidt
Starters:
Sandy Koufax
Bob Gibson
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Nolan Ryan
Pen:
Mariano Rivera
Dennis Eckersly
Goose Gossage
Rollie Fingers
Lee Smith
Dan Quisenberry
Manager:
Joe Torre
Batting Order:
1. Willie Mays (CF)
2. George Brett (3B)
3. Babe Ruth (RF)
4. Ted Williams (LF)
5. Lou Gehrig (1B)
6. Rogers Hornsby (2B)
7. Johnny Bench (C)
8. Honus Wagner (SS)
9. Walter Johnson (RHP)
LHP- Sandy Koufax
Reliever- Mariano Rivera
Manager- John McGraw
I’m going to include a DH, cause what the heck, we are interested in the best 9 deep lineup:
1. Ty Cobb, CF
2. Rodgers Hornsby, 2B
3. Babe Ruth, RF
4. Lou Gehrig, 1B
5. Ted Williams, DH
6. Barry Bonds, LF
7. Honus Wagner, SS
8. A Rod, 3B
9. Bench, C
This lineup has it all; big batting averages, lots of power, decent speed, and this team would take a lot of walks,