I Challenge ANY NBA Writer to a Debate About Why Ricky Rubio is a Number Two Pick
Hasheem Thabeet changed last year’s tournament by his damn self. Now there are whispers he won’t amount to much in the NBA despite his above average height and shot blocking ability. I get Blake Griffith going one, but why isn’t Thabeet a consensus number 2 pick? We live blogged the Gold Medal game against Spain and Rubio’s line was an average 6 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists. What in that line warrants a number two pick? I’ve said this many times, but foreign players have benefited basically because of a war. How many of our top 
stars didn’t make the trip to Athens because of security concerns only to be mad hated on by OUR own media? Nash and Nowitzki have three MVP trophies? What?!? Look, if the kid comes in and wrecks shop in the league then I’ll give him his props, but until then stop swinging on his nutsack. Straight up. I don’t care who you are. Bring your A game and debate me here or in your forum before Thursday’s NBA draft. Put up or shut up and that includes you too Lang Whitaker, Ben Osborne (hell anyone at SLAM for that matter. Especially after this garbage. Ya better than that.), Myles Brown, Doug Gottlieb, Bobby Knight, Mike Breen, Doug Collins…uh who else? I guess most of you have forgotten how talented Jonny Flynn is huh? Why is he not being mentioned in that spot? Teague will bang it on him. Curry will shoot his eye out. Hell Patrick Mills did. Maynor? Come on.
This type of hype almost gives the cat the ROY because of all the attention he’ll receive during the year. Reminds me of how they were giving Nash the MVP after ten games in a season where Kobe scored 81 points in a game or the year Shaq helped turn around Miami and Nash still ran away with the award. How many rings do Dirk and Nash have? How many do Kobe and Shaq have? This cat better be scrutinized like any other BLACK player who has come into the league with so much hype. A line of 6 points and 6 rebounds his rookie year is not gonna cut it. No excuses. He’ll definitely not get any here. For the record, this has nothing to do with Ricky Rubio the person….just the hype. I don’t care how many years Rubio has spent in a SPANISH pro league, until he does it over here then shut the hell up. This BS is not based on talent alone. Why am I talking about this? Ask the sleep deprived Madison Square Garden crowd after 6 overtimes who the man was and you have your answer.
Shawn Bradley? Steve Stipanovic? They were no brainers. Especially Bradley in that draft.
Tariq this is kind of obvious. To say GMs don’t want great White hopes is absurd.
Mizzo:
Matt Bonner is a Great White Hope?
Oh look, we have created enchantment with Tariq, who finds it necessary to expostulate on a stream of thought which is entirely of his own creation. Interesting.
“Rephrasing” my “argument” to suit his own conceptually limited purposes.(T’was never an argument, my son, as I could care less about entering into a “debate’ with you about how these ideas relate – either you see it or you don’t, I am not your teacher.) Fascinating.
Then spends the next twenty comments dueling with himself – and this is the very definition of a dark, unreconciled striving – over realities that he nonetheless refuses to see. All-knowing Tariq who asks questions of others and then answers them himself. Priceless!
Carry on, wayward son. Please do not allow the words I actually wrote stop you from making your point… But while doing so, please do not expect a reply from me in which I actually take you seriously…
Enuf
Well, Last Poet,
A few points:
First off, you address me with a condescending air. That is not your right, but it does not irk me. If it suits you, use it.
Secondly, It is entirely possible that I have misunderstood your point, and am open to correction, even if you persist in your condescension. But it seems that my “rephrasing” of your “argument” has found favor with others.
Thirdly, you say that you are not my teacher, but I am not ashamed of taking wisdom even from the mouths of fools.
Fourthly, “All-knowing Tariq”: What I know is staggeringly outweighed by what I don’t know.
Fifthly, I do not refuse to see any realities. On the contrary, I am pleading with you to set me straight. Perhaps I AM wrong and YOU are right. But you are “above” this discussion. I am not to be taken seriously. Fine.
Run away, run away, little poet. Everyone is out to get you little poet. Beware of the boogey man, little poet. Hide, hide, hide. It’s scary out here in the sun.
Tariq shhhhhh he’s the wrong one brotha! LOL
Don’t worry, Mizzo. He doesn’t take me seriously.
“… But to me, honestly, I don’t think you can really fulfill your potential as a human being if you don’t have the capacity to love. And I mean, if you don’t wish the best for every human being, no matter what color they happen to be. I think you should have love in your heart for the whitest whiteboy, and when I say that, I mean that in your heart of hearts, you sincerely wish Johnny Whiteboy happiness. I think that’s what Brother Malcolm X discovered towards the end of his life. And I think that’s sorely lacking among some of the members of this board. I think, some of the members of this board are blindly loyal to their race. And I think they resent it when a scrub like Luke Walton makes 30 million dollars, and construct an elaborate conspiracy to explain it. Because they’re bitter…”
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First, I personally don’t use the term whiteboy, because I resent being called out of my name. Don’t paint me with that brush. Secondly, when Malik Shabazz made his transition to orthodoxy, many including me felt let down, because we believed if such a man could succumb to Arabized Islam then what hope is there? However, the love of TRUE Islam and the love you are talking about are two different things. I won’t extend love to anybody just because! It is not only erroneous but inciting for you to act like you don’t over stand what I said and proceed to deal in revisionist stories. You arrogance in accusing members of this board of blindly following ethnicity, shows how you project your own bias.
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Why does this fucking whiteboy make 30 million dollars? He doesn’t deserve it? And you know what? He DOESN’T deserve it. But why isn’t there such resentment when a guy like Jerome James gets 30 million dollars? Because what nobody will say is this: A lot of people on this board actually DO think Jerome James deserved that 30 million. Not because of his basketball skills, but simply BECAUSE HE’S BLACK. It’s A-OK for him to make 30 million dollars while averaging 3 ppg and 2rpg BECAUSE HE’S BLACK. Let the brother get his, as it were. Isn’t there something fundamentally wrong with that line of thinking?
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Mizzo, just expanded on my explanation of Jerome James to you. I thought I explained Luke Walton to you. You have two ears and two eyes, use them liberally, the ability to learn is based on the WILLINGNESS and ability to listen and comprehend. To go further on this path will incur the attacks you claim to see here. And speak for myself on this point.
Tariq you are smarter than this. No one here should have to explain every single example. Our thinking here is much deeper than simple ethnicity as sankofa just alluded to.
This site isn’t just about Blackness, it is about how Blackness is reflected on a larger society through decency.
Straight up like this. In my world there isn’t any middle ground, you are either with me or against me. Others here might be different, but I’ve come to the conclusion through mad mad experience in and out of the field.
You know racism when you see it and when a WHITE man is drafted high on hype and all of the sudden scrutiny lessens after he’s able to hide in the L after a few years then that shit is whack.
I don’t care who it is.
Living in Los Angeles I will say that on one hand Walton is a fantastic passer and knows the triangle. On the other hand, the guy makes truly bone headed decisions sometimes and is slow.
However, I can’t look at his signing in a vacuum separate from other decisions in the league that are clearly made based on race. If you take Nash’s 2(!) MVP’s, the dress code, Birdman’s ascension (this is a decision made by the NBA in conjunction with ESPN) and then look at why some players services are retained against all logic, then you start to see that yes this player was probably hired/hyped because he is white and why is that? Well, they will tell you it’s because white people are the main audience for this sport, spend the money to go to games and buy all the merch so that’s who they have to cater to, or maybe they are trying to appeal to as broad a demographic as possible. I don’t know if I quite agree with that
LastPoet is REALLY, REALLY smart. I like how he uses big words and an air of condescension to smash his opponents. I’d never dare tussel with that dude.
I wonder though, has he (or anyone round here) ever won an away game? Seems like the truly great ones can win on the road. I know, you get less calls, and the away crowd can be REALLY MEAN. But the truly magnificant ones (sorry, my thesaurus couldn’t come up with anything better) still overcame the odds and won on the road.
I’ve seen this rountine before man, but if your mind was as supreme as you clearly believe, I’d have seen you actually convince someone towards your point of view. Instead, you’re either too smart, or the other party is too white (oops, sorry Tariq, let’s say, not black enough) to understand you.
That’s a very clever defence mechanism, and I hope it keeps you happy. However, if this country and its sports culture are as toxic as you say, and if the point of this blog is to change that, then I would think engagement is the only way.
GAM: I think you’re on to something.
Mizzo: “You are either with me or against me”…you’re quoting Bush?!
sankofa:
It’s unfortunate that you feel Malcolm X has let you down. I feel the opposite way: He has always been a hero of mine because I always felt that he hungered for truth. That was what he yearned for above all else. He was loyal to that above all else, above, yes, even his ethnicity. That’s the same way I feel about my ethnicity.
Which brings me to an important point: It’s wrong to say “Arabized” Islam. It’s just Islam. The Islam that was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad 1400 years ago. There is no “Arabized” Islam and “Europeanized” Islam and “Africanized” Islam. There is Islam as it was revealed to Muhammad. And in the Book that was revealed to him, the Qur’an, it says:
“O mankind! We created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other (not that you may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted with all things.”
See, there is the criteria: The most honored is not the one who is from this country or that land, or the one who belongs to this ethnicity or that, but the one who is righteous. This is what Brother Malcolm grasped. And I love him.
GAM we’ve done it both ways here. I try to engage readers with interviews and leave the forum for work week therapy for some.
There is an Arabization of Islam. Islam by its stated goal is purely about uplifting the spirit and steps to attain that. Islam as is practiced has inculcated Arab culture on to those not born in the culture, which permiates every space imagined. From music, to dress, to the interaction between females and males.
This is the Arabization I speak off. And this is part of the reasons for the rise of wahabiism and the talaban. Because orthodoxy demands every one to follow a ritualistic path layed out not in the Hadith, but in the interpretation of the Hadith.
Does the Hadith needs interpretation? Many of those who claim to follow the Hadith, do not over stand the Qu’an when this is the final word.
Maybe I was not clear on brother Shabazz, but it took a while to come around to over standing him on this level. But Malik Shabazz did embrace Arab culture… and African culture, the latter of which many others have not embraced.
“…There is no “Arabized” Islam and “Europeanized” Islam and “Africanized” Islam…”
So true, the Sufis thought so on the highest level and see how that was met?
As Temple3 said in another post Right thought, Right speech, Right deed. Everything else is window dressing.
GAM you never game me a definitive answer of who has come out of this league and wrecked shop in the NBA. I can think of numerous Big East players who have.
Mizzo:
I don’t really follow the Euroleague, but I believe Pau Gasol and Manu Ginobili played there.
I knew that, but that’s only two players. Gasol’s brother makes three. Who else?
Are you asking about guys who played in the SPANISH league or the EUROleague? If it’s like soccer (and I think it is), then each league plays against every other league. So teams from the Spanish league would play against teams from the German league.
So would Dirk Nowitzki qualify?
Jose Calderon
Rudy Fernandez
Fabricio Oberto
Andres Nocioni
Luis Scola
Carlos Delfino
Tony Parker
Boris Diaw
Mickael Pietrus
Hedo Turkoglu
Mehmet Okur
Peja Stojakovic
That’s off the top of my head.
Andrei Kirilenko
I mean there are a LOT of players who have made the jump from the Euroleague to the NBA.
And some even decide to go back home like Juan Carlos Navarro. He had a pretty good season with Memphis but preferred to sign with Barcelona.
Tariq, you know me better than that. I asked about the Spanish League. Of course I know how many players from Europe jump into the league but damn, we still have the best players over here. It’s not as easy as it used to be, but we are still #1.
From the Spanish league, as far as I know:
Jose Calderon, Fabricio Oberto, Andres Nocioni, Luis Scola, Rudy Fernandez, and Carlos Delfino. And Juan Carlos Navarro had a solid season with Memphis last year (I think he averaged something like 11 ppg and 3 apg off the bench) but he got a better offer from his old club, Barcelona, and decided to go back. There may be others, but those are the guys I can think of.
Oh and sankofa:
Just so you know– You and Mizzo never EXPLAINED the Jerome James thing. You claimed that every GM in the league was salivating over him…Yeah, I must have missed that. And then Mizzo said “Some may think he deserved 30 based on the NBA pay scale” but then apologized for entering the discussion without understaing the context. Just so you know.
But like I said, Mizzo, I don’t watch European basketball. I don’t watch college ball. All I watch is the NBA.
Tariq: and not a 1 of those guys is a good NBA player. Not 1.
I meant to say Navarro had a good season with Memphis two seasons ago, not last season.
Okori:
I think anyone who understands basketball would tell you that Luis Scola, for starters, is a good basketball player. He isn’t going to the Hall of Fame, but he’s a damn good basketball player, and there are a hell of a lot of teams who could use him.
And I’m a Lakers fan…Give me Jose Calderon to run the point and I’d be VERY happy.
Not one good NBA player…GTFOH.
Scola is a monster because he gets in spaces and steals rebounds. I was really impressed with his rebounding tenacity and tried to get him to answer some questions, but he barely speaks English.
The thing is Tariq is that why would you take a chance on a player who might be steady over a cat like Tyreke Evans or Sam Young who might be all stars?
I think people are gonna be shocked when they look back on this draft and see players blow up in ways most should have seen but are overshadowed by the mass marketing of Ricky Rubio.
Here’s what I meant Tariq: If Luis Scola is the best player on your team you’re headed straight to the lottery.
And Mizz…. it might be time to learn Spanish man. Too many people speak Spanish for you not to know it.
Okori: There’s a difference between being a good player and a franchise player.
i know. I categorize Scola as a decent player, a role player. he’s not good to me.
Mizzo:
I think unless you’re drafting a LeBron James or someone like that, a draft is always a gamble. How about Michael Olowokandi? Why in the world would you draft Michael Olowokandi over Paul Pierce? Why would you draft TWENTY guys, who are Black (Hilton Armstrong) and White (JJ Redick) over Rajon Rondo?
Or look at the 2005 Draft:
You could look at Chris Paul and Deron Williams dropping to 3 and 4 and Andrew Bogut going 1 and go “GREAT WHITE HYPE!”… But then how do you explain Marvin Williams going at 2, also ahead of CP3 and Deron?
To me, it’s always a gamble. Rubio is a gamble. And he’s NOT a consensus No. 2 pick. EVERYBODY has Thabeet ahead of him. And I was just watching Jay Bilas today and he has Rubio at FIVE, and he was saying “Listen, Rubio is NOT a sure thing. And they were saying that Rubio had zero points against Brandon Jennings in one game and that he’s turnover-prone and has no jumpshot and isn’t super-athletic.”
But I think the allure of Rubio (aside from being white) is that the guy has been a pro since the age of 14, and that has to count for something no matter what you think of the ACB + the footage of him with that crazy handle is pretty impressive.
Now I haven’t followed Rubio and in fact it seems to me that it would be a difficult transition to make for all the reasons that Jay Bilas mentioned (and Bilas is white, btw). But Bilas has been wrong before. Bilas thought Josh Smith was going to be a bust too. So really, who knows.
Okori:
Of COURSE he’s a role player. A GOOD role player.
Let me put it this way:
If Luis Scola were a free agent, and Danny Ferry called LeBron James and said:
“Listen, Bron, we’re trying to get Scola to sign a contract, but we’re facing stiff competition from other teams. So here’s what we need you to do: We need you to KISS SCOLA’S ASS. Do whatever it takes…take him to dinner, whatever…”
You know what would happen?
LeBron James would BEG Scola to become a Cav. And Scola would make a BIG difference.
In most instances though Tariq most were shaking their heads after some of the picks you posted. The Marvin Williams, Olowokandi and Bogut picks were just crazy to me. It seems the NBA goes for this conventional wisdom thing that is just absurd.
As far as speaking Spanish Okori, I know some and whenever I’ve been to Mexico can get my way around pretty easily but when there’s a time limit in the locker room? No dice.
That needs to change though. I’ll learn it soon enough. Gotta get my Pepe Le Pew on as well.