I do recognize that you said “great chance” — and you’re 150% (if there is such a thing) correct.

I’d love to Moss in Philly…but I also saw what Stallworth did when he was healthy. He was BLAZING!!! They just need to stay healthy and run the ball — that’s all.

Randy Moss was not a “no-brainer” acquisition for the Patriots, the Raiders, or the Vikings. Moss’ stocked dropped significantly on draft day and he fell right into Dennis Green’s lap. He did what he did in Minnesota and the result was the split of the most potentially devastating passing combination in the history of the league. Culpepper’s super-phenomenal season in 2004 was accomplished with Moss missing 7 games. So, what Brady accomplished with Moss in 2007 was already scripted three years earlier.

After what happened with Moss in LA and after what happened with T.O. in Philly, it is not the least bit surprising that the Eagles did not enter the Moss Sweepstakes. It is only AFTER the success of the 2007 Patriots that one can clamor for Moss in green. Guess what — the Patriots LOST THE GAME. Moss has exactly as many Super Bowl rings and appearances as Donovan McNabb and Terrell Owens.

So, you could get Moss — and that might make you feel better, but it is absolutely no guarantee that the team would win a championship.

Mizzo: Gonzalez is a G, but the Eagles have always had very good pass catching tight ends: from Chad Lewis to LJ Smith to Celek. I know they’re not in Gonzalez’ league, but they are more than adequate given how much the ball is spread around in this offense.

Origin:

A quick thing on Kevin Curtis….

I think folks in Philly have some serious-ass amnesia. I love y’all, but I’ll be if y’all don’t sound like you make it up as you go along.

Curtis is not a dominant receiver. The Eagles never intended for him to fill that role. Curtis was drafted by the Rams to play in the slot between Torry Holt and Isaac Bruce. He’s fast, has good hands, and great agility. In his first season in Philly, he caught 77 passes for over 1,000 yards. He’s not a bum by any stretch of the imagination. He’s not a #1, but no one every said he was…and if you get that kind of production from a 2, you’re very happy.

The season before Curtis came to Philly, the Eagles came out like gang busters. I remember because I had Donte Stallworth on my FFL team — and then the wheels came off. Stallworth was injured early. McNabb was injured late. Stallworth averaged 19 yards per catch that season — INSANE. Reggie Brown averaged nearly 18 — INSANE.

And the Eagles lost to the Saints on the road because of McNabb’s HEALTH (SEE ABOVE). Stallworth played in that game and had a big score. (WHEW — Remember that hit on Reggie Bush!!!)

Now, the Eagles signed Stallworth coming off of his career best year in New Orleans. He was the FIRST RECEIVER DRAFTED in 2002. He was not supposed to be a bust. When you get the FIRST receiver in a draft as a free agent coming off a career year, that (to me) looks like a significant effort to get support for your QB. When he is paired with a 2nd round draft pick who averages 18 yards per catch, that seems like a pretty sizeable investment in your QB. And when you add a guy like Curtis who immediately gives you 77 catches and 1000+ yards, I can’t be mad at the GM.

You probably recall that the resigning of Stallworth was complicated. He had a lot of interest…from Miami, Tennessee, New England, etc. Given how things turned out, I can’t be mad at the GM for passing on that bidding war. Stallworth didn’t work out in New England either.

—–

If you want to say, like Mizzo, that the Eagles draft/sign the wrong type of receiver, I can’t argue…but if you argue that these guys are all bums and were bums from jump, then that won’t work.

I think the 4 problems with McNabb up top are insurmountable. He is who he is. He is a very talented playmaker and leader, who is also an erratic, oft-injured QB who has played most of his career surrounded by sometimes talented, sometimes abysmal, erratic, oft-injured receivers.

Every team has first round busts.

I want the big free agent moves. The Matt Ryan two year in the league Tony Gonzalez moves.

That was a huge statement and in my opinion, smacks of entitlement.

Everyone in the world knew the Eagles were a piece or two away. Go get it. Nah, they just go after Moss the year after he set the touchdown record…

Way too late then. Pull the trigger and win a championship.

If it wasn’t for MJ those busta fans in Chicago would still talk about the Bears ’85 season like Philly fans were talking about that ’83 season before the Phillies won las year.

I have always given the eagles D the credit. Of all the playoffs runs the 2003 defense was the weakest.

Now as far as the Eagles are cheap…….I have been saying that since I was a child of the 80s. Philly is the East coast version of Chicago.

All their teams and owners are cheap just like Chicago. Except they have been waiting for their savior Michael Jordan to come and win multiple championships so that they won’t be the laughing stock of the east coast.

And yes I undertsand that Faulk was there before Peyton. But once Faulk was gone they made sure there was an EJ, then a Addai then a Brown.

Like I said before agree to disagree………..and enjoy the games.

Please don’t forget that the Eagles had the #4 defense in the NFL last season. McNabb did a ton of heavy lifting, but guys like Trent Cole do actually come to work every day and earn the occasional pay check.

I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating…the Eagles are cheap. They’re not going into the 1st round for a RB. They haven’t done that since 1986 with Keith Byars. So, just because McNabb doesn’t have a running back doesn’t mean that Akili Smith didn’t have one…or that Vick didn’t have two…or that Leftwich didn’t have two…or that Kordell didn’t have several.

If you want to make the case, make the case.

At some point, you have to recognize that if Freddie Mitchell and Donte Stallworth turned out to be studs, this would be a moot point. I’m not really sure what you’re arguing. If you’re arguing that the guys who played with McNabb sucked, we don’t disagree. If you’re arguing it was obvious they were going to suck, I think you’re nuts. The team invested, gambled and lost.

Look at San Francisco. They have a slew of white QBs, but haven’t had a dominant receiver since Owens left. They’ve drafted high with Brandon Lloyd and others. Josh Morgan didn’t work out. Tai Streets didn’t work out. JJ Stokes didn’t work out. The list is damn near endless. And they have a fossil of Isaac Bruce as their top guy until MC is ready to emcee.

I just don’t know what you’re looking for — but it sounds like you’re hell bent on finding it.

Every Cutler int isn’t his fault its Lovie’s and Ron Turners fault.

Man I tell you I would give up my left foot to be Cutler……..reminds me how they use to say that all those picks that Rex threw was always Lovie’s fault too.

LOL!!!

Man must be nice.

Kevin Curtis……..

Dude caught 800 yards 2 years before leaving the Rams and 400 yards the year before.

Kevin Curtis can’t even get pass bump and run coverage.

Just a few things on the conference championships. You guys know that the only Championship that the Eagles won……..Westbrook was healthy.

In 2003 he missed the the playoffs. In 2008 he was hurt.

Another thing Mcnabb and Elway have like the smame exact win loss record over like 100 games. I think Mcnabb has Elway beat by like 1 win. The both have 1 tie.

Amazing some kat on th Eagles website brought it up.

Another thing passing stats don’t tell the whole story. Realize that Mcnabb too Todd Pinkston and James Thrash to the Conf. Championship multiple times……wow.

Last year he took Kevin Curtis and a rookie WR to the conference championship game……..wow. He did all of this with a banged up scat back and a coach who passes 65% of the time. Amazing………

IMO I am not sure any QB playing today could have done that.

Thats like Lebron taking those bustas he has to the Conf. Finals and Finals. The last 2 out of 3 years.

Or Kobe taking smush and Kwame to the playoffs……LOL!!!

Anyway Brotha Temple we will have to just agree to disagree on this.

But let me clarify my issue isn’t just with the lack of WRs or the Eagles…………its with the NFL as a whole how black QBs are treated and the lack of support they get. Not to mention how they aren’t protected the same way that the golden boys are.

To be honest with you the lack of a WR has been 3 steps down my list when it comes to the Eagles. The issues are lack of RB help over the years….I want Mcnabb to get 4 first round picks at RB just like Peyton has had.

See this is my issue I know you listed TO and Stallworth. But here is the kicker see when they left they should have been replaced with quality players. That how they do it for the golden boys. When Palmer lost TJ…….coles was brought in.

When Manning lost Faulk……EJ was brought in.

You can’t lose stalworth then bring in Kevin Curtis. That man was trash. He was a slot WR who caught for 400 yards with the rams the previous year. He played in the slot next to 2 HOF WRs.

But he is suppose to come in Philly and be a #1 WR??? Please.

Or how about the eagles playing RBs as FBs for the last 4 years until this year. This is the same team that had a freaking DT that was playing FB last year. A freak DT??? I mean really.

2 years ago Mcnabb asks for help on the offensive end and the Eagles trade the 1st pick to the cowboys a division rival??? I mean really???? The cowboys then draft a pass rushing LB to chase Mcnabb. Man you can’t make this crap up……..sh&^ like Madden or something.

I am tired of seeing these black QBs get jerked around with the lack of help on the offensive end and the lack of support from coaching.

Oh and as Miranda said it ain’t about Roddy White in ATL. Its about a revamped OL and Turner……..then they throw in Tony G.

Its about Brady getting Dillion and Randy Moss for a wet food stamp and a throw back jersey.

Its about Manning getting playing with 8 1st round picks at the skill position.

Its about a young Eli needing help so they go get him Plaxico (in free agency) and a 250 pound monster at RB in the draft (that even my blind @ss knew would be he!! in the league).

But progress is slow. If I told you 20 years ago there would be a black QB who went to 5 Championship games and a superbowl you might not believe it. Or that during a 6 or 7 year span from about 1999 thru 2005 that black QBs (Mcnabb, Stewart, Vick, Culpepper, Cunningham, Mcnair) were showing up in the championship games dang near every year for and going to superbowls. You and I would have probably said heck to the no.

Those guys did far more then anyone would have expected. They have or are laying the ground work for younger kats. Mcnabb is the first black QB who has openly 2 asked for some sort of help and gotten it. Something his white counterparts do on a regular and receive.

So that in itself is amazing.

Another thing to note if Mcnabb plays one more year with the Eagles he will have been the first black QB to play over 11 years with the same team.

Yep progress takes awhile.

Anyway as I said Temple we can agree to disagree on this. This is not the first time we have disagreed on the NFL brotha. Remember you say the NBA favors certain teams……I say the NFL does the same thing plus favors certain golden boys.

LOL!!!!

It is what it is…………..oh and Farve still gonna get that ring this year. If the coaches have to run Adrian Peterson into the ground. That 1.5 billion dollar Vikings stadium is depending on it.

So run Adrian run…….and Farve will get all the glory.

LOL!!!

I get what you are saying brotha, but when a RANDY MOSS is dangling for a fourth round pick, you go get him.

I’m not speaking of rookies or stop gap free agent moves.

Big guns. Championship makers. HOFers.

The good are separated from the great simply by the risks they take.

Who the hell is gonna remember Kevin Curtis?

To your Elway point, Rod Smith has over 800 catches.

Elway was criticized by the local media, but it never festered nationally.

2003 Jacksonville Jaguars draft Byron Leftwich 7th overall. 2004, Jags draft Reggie Williams (WR) 9th overall. 2005, Jags draft Matt Jones (WR) 21st overall. 2006, Jags draft Marcedes Lewis (TE) 28th overall. 2006, Jags draft Maurice Jones-Drew 60th overall. 2007, Jags draft Mike Walker 79th overall.

Exhibit B:

1999 Cincinnati Bengals draft Akili Smith 3rd overall. 2000 Cincinnati Bengals draft Peter Warrick 4th overall and Ron Dugans 66th overall (both from Florida State). 2001 Cincinnati Bengals draft Chad Johnson 36th overall and draft T.J. 204th overall (both from Oregon State).

I could do this all day. Whatchu got??

2001 Atlanta Falcons draft Michael Vick first overall. Second pick for ATL in that draft? Algernon Darius Crumpler. 2003, ATL signed Peerless Price coming off a career year in Buffalo. 2004, ATL drafted Michael Jenkins 29th overall. In 2005, ATL drafted Roddy White 27th overall. In 2007, ATL drafted Laurent Robinson 75th overall. In 2008, ATL drafted Harry Douglas 84th overall.

I don’t think you see what you think you see.

Remember Jeff Blake? Drafted by the Jets — became a Bengal…beat out David Klinger and inherited Carl Pickens and Michigan’s Tony McGee (TE). What did Cincy do his first full season? They picked up Darnay Scott and added David Dunn. They even drafted Ki-jana Carter in 1995.

Sorry, bruh. I’m not with you on this one.

By the way, the last time this discussion came up, I went into great detail to say that its tough to blame the Eagles for the WR issue given that they haven’t changed their approach.

They signed Donte Stallworth coming off a career year.
They signed Kevin Curtis coming off a career year.
They signed the highly touted Freddie Mitchell out of UCLA.
They brought in Terrell Owens.
They used a high pick on Reggie Brown.

When you look around the league, it’s not like every team goes out and drafts receivers every year. Some of it is luck. Some of it boils down to players.

In Atlanta, Roddy White didn’t come in playing hard. He had to be reigned in aggressively by coaches and his momma — according to the reports.

In Indy, Reggie Wayne was a buster for a few years before he finally took off. It didn’t happen over night.

In Cincinnati, TJ Houshmandzadeh was a 7th round draft pick.

In San Diego, neither Malcom Floyd nor Vincent Jackson were highly regarded out of college.

In New Orleans, Colston was a 7th rounder. Lance Moore wasn’t a superstar. And Robert Meachem was the same stud at Tennessee that Stallworth was…

Bottom line, I think there is waaaay to much randomness is who turns out to be a REAL G at WR to get bent out of shape over the failings of the Eagles to strike gold until 2009. Shit happens.

“…just bear in mind that I am not arguing the fans aren’t racist. That would be absurd.”

We don’t have a disagreement.

Mizzo/Origin:

I think McNabb compares to Elway as much as he does to anyone who’s ever played the game. Elway’s numbers were not close to McNabb’s for most of his career. He didn’t have a breakout statistical year until he was 30 or 31. Elway didn’t play with great receivers or a power running back until the very end of his career. His first great season was when he played with Shannon Sharpe at tight end. Elway dragged the Broncos to 3 Super Bowls — but he was healthy…and Colorado doesn’t run hot like Philly. No one ever goes to Denver and says, “Oh, this is just like Philly!” Elway’s rating was similar to the players of his era — unlike McNabb’s whose rating is significantly lower.

I suspect that if McNabb was healthy, the Eagles (even with those crappy receivers) could have made another Super Bowl — but the biggest impediment to their rise has been the play calling of Andy Reid. They pass to much — and Donovan throws those passes. He needs to audible for more runs. If they run 25+ per game, they’ll win. Throwing 50 passes is patently absurd. Brady can’t do it. Manning can’t do it. No one can do that and win. Favre just did it Sunday and lost at Pittsburgh.

McNabb could be worried about getting benched, but his “cool” may be getting in the way of a need to let Andy know that it’s time to stop smoking that crack.

So, once again…I’m not saying the people who despise McNabb are not racists. I’m saying you do not have to be a racist to dislike McNabb. To suggest otherwise is to imply there are no valid criticisms of a QB with a less than 60% completion rate. He is the best in NFL history when it comes to interception rate. No one has been better in terms of protecting the ball. But, there is more to it than that.