The Starting Five All Time All Around NBA 25
I had another column in mind that was much controversial, but I decided to go here.
I was talking to my adviser/manager/agent/brother/friend the other night about who should be on this list. He was very close to the Chicago Bulls dynasty and has a knowledge of basketball that’s simply unique. Don’t get angry, but there are Hall of Fame players not here. There are players in the top 50 not on this list. The number one players listed by position changed the way we view the game. Each was a do everything player who’s stats didn’t tell the story of their true impact on the present/past/future. I’m trying to locate a post we had regarding the greatest of all time NBA players to contrast, but I’m having difficulty. If anyone has a loose TSF thread hanging around, please shoot it my way.
We agonized over this. Check who didn’t make it for the center position as well as small forward. I know you are shocked knowing how I rock. I really don’t want to go much into why each is on the list because the discussion will speak for itself. If you were a ridiculous all around talent like Chris Webber but was oft injured, you didn’t make it. He conceivably was the most talented power forward of all time…as was his D Rock City predecessor Derrick Coleman, but just wasn’t able to achieve the greatness his skill set warranted because of injury…and that’s no knock. The same can be said for David Thompson or Mark Price or Ron Harper or Grant Hill or Anfernee Hardaway or Tracy McGrady or Bernard King.
These are the players who got it done. Period.
How is Tiny Archibald going to make this list? Should Julius Erving appear here? Why? I specifically excluded Doc because his NBA game was different than the ABA version. Check the stats. How about Shaquille O’Neal? Where were his rebounding titles?
Compare he and Moses’ rebounding totals.
Who should be here that isn’t here? Mark Jackson and John Stockton are mad high on the assists list but who would they supplant? Scottie Pippen is two because I feel he is the only player in the game’s history who could have locked down LeBron. George Gervin isn’t on this list. James Worthy isn’t on this list. Artis Gilmore, Dennis Rodman, Bob Lanier or Patrick Ewing isn’t on this list. Nash, Cousy, Cheeks, Fat Lever, Alvin Robertson, Sidney Moncrief, Jo Jo White, Bill Walton…I could go on and on. Mikan, Spencer Haywood, Connie Hawkins, Pistol Pete, Dave Bing, Bob MacAdoo, John Havlicek, Nate Thurmond, Allen Iverson…
Speak.
Here’s a post we had earlier. There’s still another out there. I’ll find it.
POINT GUARDS
1. Magic Johnson
2. Oscar Robertson
3. Isiah Thomas
4. Jason Kidd
5. Gary Payton
SHOOTING GUARDS
1. Michael Jordan
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Jerry West
4. Clyde Drexler
5. Dwyane Wade
SMALL FORWARDS
1. Larry Bird
2. Scottie Pippen
3. LeBron James
4. Elgin Baylor
5. Dominique Wilkins
POWER FORWARDS
1. Charles Barkley
2. Tim Duncan
3. Elvin Hayes
4. Karl Malone
5. Kevin Garnett
CENTERS
1. Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Bill Russell
5. Moses Malone
Big Man:
Theoretically, you’re 100% right. “On paper,” the series should have been more closely contested. I believe that “talent” was only part of the issue. I think experience and the ability to execute in the clutch was also a big deal. The Rockets were defending champions. Hakeem and Clyde were veterans of wars with every “G” in the league. They battled the Lakers, Celtics and Bulls on the biggest stage. Shaq and Penny were fresh out of college, for all intents and purposes. So was Dennis Scott and Nick Anderson. They were “talented,” but they had yet to refine their games. Once you got past Shaq and Penny, the limitations of the offensive skill sets of the Magic became glaring.
Nick Anderson: streak shooter…powerful lane player; took and missed tough shots all series long after being guarded by experienced physical players like Mario Elie and Clyde Drexler.
Dennis Scott: dead-eye spot up shooter with little to NO ABILITY to handle the rock. took and missed tough shots all series long after being pushed out of his range and being unable to rely on collapsing defenses hustling off double teams of Shaq on the block.
Horace Grant: solid rebounder, better defender. modest offensive game.
Brian Shaw: STOP.
Donald Royal: DOUBLE STOP.
Jeff Turner: TRIPLE STOP.
The Magic didn’t have many guys who could do the things you need to do to rock out in the Finals.
1) Getting their own shot
2) Scoring consistently
3) Making big shots
The single greatest factor that Orlando never could remedy was the fact that Houston could single cover Shaq. That dug the coffin for every marginal player on their team. Houston went off.
Orlando’s “talent” was nervous and on the verge of getting exposed. (The only cats on that team we heard from after that followed Shaq.) Game 1: Houston was +7 in turnovers. Game 2: +6. Game 3: +3. Game 4: +9. When guys who are spot up shooters have to dribble — that’s what happens. When guys who used to overpowering college defenders and NBA regular-season effort face up to Clyde Drexler — that’s what happens.
The Rockets had Dream, Clyde, Big Shot Bob, Sam Cassell, Mario Elie and Kenny Smith. Not all of these guys were prolific scorers, but none of them needed to get their offense off of screens. They could all handle and get to a spot on the floor and score the ball — especially late.
Houston relied on a different crew in every game. In Game 1, Smith and Elie made 15 shots from the field and scored 41 points. Dennis Scott (one-dimensional Dennis) shot 3-10 and Penny (in his first championship game) shot 11-25. Talent is one thing — but in the Finals, experience and matchups can often mean a great deal more. All of Nick Anderson’s talent eluded him at the free throw line — when he needed it most. Perhaps he would have been better served by experience. Robert Horry had a poor shooting game, but had 8 boards and 5 blocks. Drexler didn’t shoot well either, but almost had a triple double — and the Rockets made their free throws.
Houston had a better team AND a more experienced team. They didn’t have to look to Brian Shaw and Donald Royal for offense! Yikes! Or Jeff Turner or Anthony Bowie.
Game 2 — Horry didn’t shoot so well in that game either. So, what did he do? He stuffed the stat sheet like he always does. 10 rebounds, 7 steals, 2 blocks.
And right when the Magic thought it was safe to go back in the water, Sam Cassell smoked their asses for 31. One-dimensional Dennis had another 3-10 game — trying to figure out how to adjust to the savvy play of these veteran Houston Rockets.
The games were close because Shaq did so much heavy lifting on both ends of the court…and so did Penny…but it wasn’t enough — not against a team with 2 of the greatest players of all time and one of the greatest post-season studs ever. Orlando had no one to match Cassell and Horry. Penny and Shaq did what they could to neutralize Hakeem and Clyde — but they were new to all of this. And that has to count for something.
By the time Game 3 rolled around, only Shaq and Ho Grant knew how to hit the broad side of a barn — and most of Horace’s work was off of misses by D. Scott (2-11), Penny (4-10) and Nick Anderson (4-14).
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By the way, I’m still pissed that the Rockets beat the Knicks. I just think this team doesn’t get enough respect.
I agree with Aki, Dr J was the only player in both leagues that was the “league”. He was like a rock star and where ever he played he sold out… He was the Mike Jordan of his time. He totally changed the game. Question: Who would you go to see play if you could go back in time..Kareem, Russel, Pippen, Drexler, Garnet, West, Kid, Payton or the Dr? Nuff said. STOP DISRESPECTING THE MAN WHO CHANGED THE GAME.
Mark hush that mess up. lol You are lucky you are my boy. You are all missing the law of the post.
IT”S ALL AROUND player.
Not most dominant. Not most talented. Not most decorated. Kids learn more about the game from these type of players.
I’d take Moses Malone’s tenacity over any center on the list (didn’t see Russell play). That’s why he’s there. I was inspired by him.
Doc was a scorer and sometime block force in the league. That’s it. What else did he do? This is no slam on Doc. I’m not saying he couldn’t rebound or pass it’s just he didn’t have to.
He’s my favorite player of all time. Good gracious lol
Well, if that’s the case then your going to have to take M Jordan off the list, also Isaiah Thomas, Clyde Drexler. I thouht Doc could pass, score, rebound, steal on the break, block shots, foul shots, post up, best in the open court EVER!, shake, break, burn, fake, fly, glide, finger roll. Remember when the cirtics said he didn’t have a jump shot…..The next year Doc shot every jumper off the glass….made darn near everyone. Not one player in HISTORY has ever done this. He had all the fundementals down. The best all around player since Jordan. Barkley has nothing on Doc. Doc has his own song…Passes it to Doc who loses his man, goes to the hoop for a GUSTO SLAM!!!!!
Add up the triple doubles of the players you’ve mentioned brothaman. Please do.
LMAO you had me cracking up fam. I had a flash back to where we gave it to everyone back in the day. I’ll never forget that oop I threw to Aki at the end of the game that bounced off the glass right into the other team’s hands for the game winner. I wanted to run out the gym. Were you on that squad? Blame Aki he called for it lol.
Everything is all good, when you love Julius Erving it gets emotional when people forget his greatness. Nothing but love Mike. I do think I remember that game. lol.
Mike, you forgot Steve Colter and Clement Johnson…lol.
Good read. Very interesting. I enjoyed the banter going on in the comment section as well.
Gotta agree. I’ve enjoyed this! After commenting at the start, I found it better to sit back and see what everyone had to say. It’s raised an interesting debate
Good post.
[...] Michael Tillery of The Starting Five joins us this week to discuss The All-Around All Time NBA 25. [...]
Stockton holds the NBA record for career steals with 3,265, nearly 30 percent more than second placed Michael Jordan, who had 2,514… Now where is his spot as 2nd or 3rd starting PG….
Give me Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Wilt, and Russell and we’ll beat anybody, anywhere, any time!
PG–Magic/Greatest Point Guard
SG–Jordan/Greatest Player All Time
C—-Kareem/All Time Leading Scorer/Sky Hook
SF–Kobe/Most Skilled EVER/Greatest Work Ethic, surpassed MJ
PF–Duncan/Most Fundamental Big/Forward All Time
For those who will hate on KOBE