Outta Here!

It’s happened here to Moses Malone, Charles Barkley, Reggie White, Randall Cunningham, Allen Iverson and most recently Brian Dawkins - athletes traded or released from Philadelphia sport franchises while they were in their prime or still productive players.  So it should come as no surprise that after 11 seasons Donovan McNabb is facing a similar fate.

The handwriting has been on the wall for sometime now – years to be exact, before losses to the Cowboys in consecutive weeks Donovan McNabb’s one-way ticket out of Philadelphia was punched. And no one is happier than me.

Happier for McNabb that is.

The last time I felt this way, the Allen Iverson trade talks were nonstop and I just wanted him gone just because it was time.

In McNabb’s case; there is no irresistible force, only the immovable object which is coach Andy Reid, who pays as much attention to the run as he does those who question his lack of using it. When Reid was extended earlier this season there was slight hope that the same would be done for McNabb if the season ended in Miami or even the NFC title game. Chances of that happening grow slimmer every day here’s why:

1. Andy Reid’s non-committal to a balanced offense does not bode well for any quarterback over age 30. Given McNabb’s injury history long before his 30th birthday, you would think that Reid would’ve made the necessary adjustments to keep McNabb out of harm’s way. Wherever McNabb goes from here, he will be blessed with an above average running attack -which could be any of the remaining 31 teams.

2. The media and fans curiosity to see Kevin Kolb (or anyone other than McNabb) has remained high, many are concerned with Kolb’s ability to carry a team for a full season while those who want to see him come hell or high water point to his two 300-yard performances against the Saints (loss) and the Chiefs (win). Kolb supporters point to his ability to hit the slant route and his accuracy. I wonder what will happen when teams have the opportunity to game plan for Kolb?

3. I refuse to place the Eagles last two playoff losses squarely on the shoulders on McNabb, That falls at the feet of a defense that was unable to get off of field. The inability to provide adequate pressure up front on Kurt Warner and Tony Romo respectively, allowed an otherwise respectable secondary to be picked apart. Poor tackling and lack of technique can also be attributed to the collapse. This Eagles defense used to strike fear in it’s opponents not anymore,  now the opposing quarterbacks just throw strikes.

4. Andy Reid’s sudden desire to go with a youth movement beginning with the drafting of DeSean Jackson last season with the additions of Jeremy Maclin and LaShon McCoy this season were not picks for McNabb per se. If anything McNabb would be given a one year run with the full compliment of this outfit (Brent Celek included) and if it worked out it would be a bonus – otherwise go with Kolb. The firestorm surrounding McNabb’s comments regarding his younger teammates after the season finale loss in Dallas has led to speculation that he has lost the lockerroom altogether. This coupled with the career-threatening injuries to Brian Westbrook are pushing the Eagles brass towards ushering in a new era of football in Philadelphia.

5. If the Eagles trade McNabb, the franchise will not suffer at the gate, (unlike the 76′ers) the waiting list for the Eagles runs a couple of years so the enthusiasm is still there. If the unknown that is Kevin Kolb doesn’t work out there may be a drawback otherwise things should remain about the same.

To those that just want McNabb gone without a logical football explanation, I don’t know if your motivation is race or frustration but there is a pretty large demographic that never wanted Five here. I’m not talking about the contingent that went out there and made asses of themselves when he was selected. I’m speaking to those that want a future Hall of Fame quarterback to be moved aside for a player that hasn’t proved much of anything to any of us. Hopefully, you’ll all get your wish and Five will move on to greener pastures in Arizona, Carolina, ‘Frisco or even Minny. Upon his return in the midst of a true championship run. Once again you’ll all be reduced to your thoughts of what might’ve been.

30 Responses to “Outta Here!”

  1. Origin says:

    Great write up.

    One quick question since I don’t follow baseball and hockey.

    But don’t most of the time the superstars who are kicked out of Philly do better the following season with their new teams, compared to the previous season in philly.

    Except Dawkins and Malone (teasm wise for both).

    Another thing I will always say that one of the reason (besides bad luck) that Mcnabb has gotten hurt alot is the constant passing offense. You can’t pass 70% as a QB and not get hurt.

    Add to the fact that for years he was the only weapon on the team and had to use his legs to extend plays. So he was the QB and best RB on the team until westbrook became a starter.

    Lets no also forget that Mcnabb has only had a 100 yard rusher once in 16 career playoff games. And guess who that 100 yard rusher was………….Mcnabb.

    Then people in philly would say he was fat because he was huffing and puffing after running around. Heck if you had to be the running game and drop back 40 times a game you would be huffing and puffing too.

    Like I said I have seen this movie before. Mcnabb leaves the golden boy comes in and the offense gets balanced. The team suddenly get a powerback and a big WR.

    I swear I can see it coming………….hopefully not.

    Cause I would love to see those philly fans enjoy some 3-13 season.

  2. Origin says:

    Quick question about the philly fans.

    Have they supported (at the gate) the eagles when they have had losing seasons.

    I was telling a friend I wouldn’t be surprised if the eagles traded Mcnabb……….then go through a couple of 3-13 seasons and draft Terrel Pryor.

    LOL!!!

    Then it would be Cunningham and Mcnabb all over again. It would be like the Oilers/Titans east coast style.

    You know all the hate for Moon, Mcnair and Vince.

  3. Temple3 says:

    Origin:

    You are on a roll.

  4. Ron Glover says:

    Origin, Terrelle (sp) Pryor is Cunningham and McNabb morphed into one.

    Fans have always supported at the gate, this is a football town. I don’t think they’ll sink to 3-13 I can see a couple of 7-9, 8-8 seasons.

    Malone avg. 24 and 11 his first season in D.C. (all-star), 23-11 his last season in Philly. He went on to have productive years in D.C. and ATL up until the 91-92 campaign in Milwaukee.

    Dawkins was tailor made for the Broncos system he was allowed to roam and play “centerfield” back there. He had a decent season.

    Here is something to admire about McNabb. In that pass happy offense he has 212 career TD passes to 100 INT (2:1 ratio). To put that into perspective Terry Bradshaw has 212 TDs 210 INT. Brett Favre 497 TDs 317 INT.

  5. Origin says:

    @ Temple………..thanks brotha.

    @ Ron glover………..great points man. I was really refering to Dawkins and Moses team success. Since the Broncos didn’t make the playoffs and the Bullets got knocked out the first round like Philly back in 86-87.

    But Dawk and Moses both put up great stats the year after leaving Philly.

    So yeah I can see Mcnabb doing the same and his team playing well.

    You are right Ron I could see the eagles going 7-9 with Kolb. I was just being mean and nasty towards the team. Hey but you know me I still can’t stand the falcons.

    As you pointed out Mcnabb is not turnover prone. I am not sure if Kolb will be the same way.

    Here is something else for you brothas.

    The only year Mcnabb went to the superbowl was the year he had a healthy Westbrook in the playoffs.

    Now Westbrook was only getting playing time in the back field in 2003 and after.

    In 2003 he was a backup and hurt his sholder in the washington game and missed the playoffs.

    In 2004 Westbrook was healthy and the eagles beat the Falcons in the championship game.

    In 2008 Westbrook was not healthy in the championship game.

    So in all of Mcnabb’s playoff seasons. 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008 and 2009.

    Mcnabb only had westbrook in 2003, 2004, 2008 and 2009. Out of those years westbrook was only healthy 1 season (2004).

    Like I been saying th3 last 3 years on this site and on SOMM. Andy Reid sealed Mcnabb’s fate when he passed over Steven Jackson for the OL Andrews.

  6. Ron Glover says:

    @ Origin…. Most definitely

  7. Origin says:

    Warren Moon (1984 – 1993 with the Oilers) 10 years

    Randall Cunningham (1985 – 1995 in Philly) 11 Years

    Steve Mcnair (1995 – 2005 with the Oilers/Titans) 11 Years

    Allen Iverson (1997-2007 in Philly) 11 years

    Charles Brakley (1984-1992 in Philly) 8 years

    Looking at this list of players who some Mcnabb has been compared to based on position, talent and hue. As well as being a star in Philly.

    It will be no surprise if Mcnabb doesn’t make it to 12 years in Philly. No black QB has even been the QB of a team for longer then 11 years. And in Philly if you are a star it seems the fans and media are ready to dump you after year 6.

    Unlike White and Dawkins……….Mcnabb didn’t have an out….free agency.

    The smartest thing Barkley ever did was force his way out of Philly. Cause they would have used up his talent and dumped him when he was no longer able to perform.

    Thats what I have always been afraid of what would happen to Mcnabb………….maybe he needs to give Barkley a call for some advice.

    But on the real no black QB could pull a Cutler. That would surely get him in some serius heat.

    But who knows times are changing……..shoot Jason Campbell and Troy Smith actually requested trades. Now you know in the past you never heard of QBs of their hue asking for trades.

  8. HarveyDent says:

    Don’t be surprised if there are Eagles fans booing the man when he’s inducted into the HOF.

  9. Ron Glover says:

    Wouldn’t surprise me at all HD.

  10. HarveyDent says:

    RG

    As to where the fans are at we know as objective Eagles’ fans that McNabb is a lightning rod in EagleNation and those who have never appreciated him will never appreciate him even if he did win a SB with the Eagles. For some reason the guy rubs some in Philly the wrong way. For some it’s thinly veiled racism, for others it’s the fact that he never seems beat by it all, and for others his flaws as a QB far outweigh his positives.

    Whatever it is, I’m tired of it as an Eagles fan because it’s something I’ve never seen or heard before where the fans of a team continually and joyfully rip one of their own team’s players. McNabb as a football player doesn’t deserve that and EagleNation and Philadelphia as a town don’t deserve a QB of that caliber. I’ll always root for my team but as long as Donnie Mac is in the league wearing other colors believe me it won’t be easy.

  11. Ron Glover says:

    HD- I’m resolved to the fact that whatever success McNabb has will not be here and I’m resolved to the fact that when it comes to championships this team will always be in that second tier. The only change that we can pray for is in coaching and ownership.

    Reid, Lurie and Banner are joined at the hip, I believe that it will take more than a couple of 8-8 seasons for Lurie to fire Reid.

  12. Michael D. says:

    Hey i agree with you some of your points about Mcnabb, even about the jerks who booed him when drafted. No question Mcnabb has done a lot for the Eagles, but one thing that hurts him is that he’s not accurate. No one mentions that he is hot and cold in the same game. The last playoff game with the Cowboys was not all his fault, but we do need a new defensive coordinator and it’s time for someone else to pull the trigger…not Mcnabb. I’m a Mcnabb fan, have been since he was drafted but a fact is a fact.

  13. Origin says:

    Hey RG…….whats up with my comment. Its been waiting moderation for like 3 hours.

    What up Harvey?

    I see the trolls on the Eagles forum are saying that they will take nothing less then a 1st round pick for Mcnabb. And that they are sending him to a junk team……LOL!!!

    Don’t they know that Mcnabb holds all the cards. He won’t go anywhere he doesn’t want…..because he has only one year left on his contract.

    Boy I swear there are like 10 posts on Mcnabb being traded. I don’t know what those knuckleheads will do on that forum when Mcnabb is gone. I swear that forum won’t last 2 years after Mcnabb is gone.

    And Harvey, great break down on the folks who can’t stand Mcnabb. I would add that actually many of the folks who don’t like Mcnabb are actually a little bit of all 3 of the examples you gave rolled up in one.

    But like I said with Terrell Pryor when he was a freshman. They only hate cause they fear you. They only hate cause he won’t buckle and scream uncle. They only hate cause they never wanted him to make it this far and they feel that he and people that look like him don’t deserve to play the position. This is what I am talking about with QBs like Mcnabb and the rest.

    They feel these dudes don’t deserve to play QB. Maybe FB, RB, WR or DL. But not QB.

    Thats why I can go on any forum and its 20 pages on Jamercus Russell being a bust. Or how David Garrad doesn’t deserve the pro bowl appearance (even though everyone and their momma dropped out). Or how VY wasn’t going to amount to anything when he was sitting on the bench. Or how Josh Freeman is not a thinking QB and will never amount to anything because all he likes to do is run.

    Yet I can’t find one post on how crappy Alex Smith is. Or how Brady Quin is throwing for 60 yards in back to back games. Or how Jake Delhomme is the worst starting QB in the league.

    My favorite is going on Profootballtalk and see how a post about some black QB can all a sudden turn into how Obama is destroying this so called great country of ours.

    I mean this stuff is so sad and just shows how sick this country is. Thats why a boxing promoter can come out with a league that only “Real Americans” can play in.

    And America is suppose to be post racial………..more like post apocalyptic.

  14. Origin says:

    True RG……..it all starts with Lurie.

    But it also has something to do with the fans. I never understood why philly has this hate for so many of their players.

    Is it being on the east coast surrounded by cities like NYC and Boston (cities that have won multiple titles in all major sports) that driving the fans batty.

    I mean DC doesn’t act like this………….do they???

    Is it some type of little brother syndrome?

    Is it a case of “Wahh Wahh” I want my rings just like NY and Boston……or I am going to pout and eat my own.

    Its so sad and childish………its not even funny any more.

  15. HarveyDent says:

    O, I haven’t been to PE.com since last week and with my Damascus moment this past Sunday I’m too beat to go there because it’s depressing how loud it’s getting for him to be out of there. I like to think I’m old school in that a player plays for one team his whole career and that the team puts the pieces around said player to win a championship. Iverson was able to get close with the Sixers because he put McKie, Snow, Mutombo, and the rest on his back but the lack of a big with true scoring ability made sure he wouldn’t close that deal. McNabb came close on the offense with TO and sometimes Westbrook but the inability of all three to remain healthy and on the same time killed their title hopes. DJax, Maclin, Celek, and McCoy can probably do it but it won’t be with McNabb because he’s not going to given the time to bring them along and we as Eagles fans will have to hope and pray that Kolb is the real deal and not Bobby Hoying redux.

    I won’t say McNabb wasted/is wasting his career in Philly but it’s no sense of satisfaction that he won’t be able to dine after setting the table for this team for so long. This trade is going to be wrong on so many levels and the Eagles better get used to 1pm start times for the next five years because only the hardcore are going to want to watch this team.

  16. Ron Glover says:

    @ Origin, I just approved your comment don’t know what happened apologies.

    I believe it is an inferiority complex, we’re sandwiched between NY and DC. And because of that, hatred towards our own players develop. It is childish but these fans relish in this kind of stuff and there’s no end in sight.

  17. Temple3 says:

    Good stuff everyone.

    I agree with what you all are asserting. Just wanted to add that McNabb is 3rd among all passers in the history of the NFL in interception rate. Only Aaron Rodgers and David Garrard have better numbers. Rodgers, arguably, has better receivers. He clearly has a stronger running game. Garrard plays in a more conservative offense and passes significantly less than McNabb. So, McNabb is not merely better than Bradshaw and Favre in this regard, he’s also better than Montana, Young, Marino, Moon and Elway.

    With that said, I agree with Michael D. on the issue of his accuracy. Sometimes it is very good. Sometimes it is atrocious. One friend of mine thinks that when his accuracy is bad, its intentional — as a way to avoid negative plays. I don’t agree. When you miss receivers running crossing routes by failing to hit them in the numbers and in stride, it creates long down and distance situations that tend to result in punts. McNabb may need to get up 65 or 66% to win a Super Bowl. He’s only been above 62% once — and that was with Terrell Owens.

    The trend league wide is pushing the completion percentage number toward 70% for the best of the best. 4 or 5 incompletions may mean 2 or 3 punts…maybe good field position for the opponent — and in the playoffs, it adds up. Add in Reid’s unwillingness to run or SURRENDER the playcalling to 5 and you have a recipe for disaster.

  18. Origin says:

    I see what you are saying Temple.

    Mcnabb is streaky I will give you that. But one of the main reason he is streaky is that he has to constantly pass and teams are aware of that. Some of his passes are badly thrown on purpose. Some are just off…….but if you look at the last 3 seasons as the eagles get more balanced late in the season his accuracy improves.

    I would imagine actually running the ball and not lining up in shotgun every play can actually help your accuracy. How about not having WRs run streaks every play.

    If Mcnabb didn’t have so much flux in his WR core every year and andy would call a balanced running game……..Mcnabb could get his percentage over 63%.

    Also yes kats like Brees and Peyton throw 70% in a season. But they play in a Dome and play teams in the south.

    Its way different throwing passes in late december in a dome or in Jacksonville. Then throwing 50 passes with 10 running plays in NYC, Philly and Washington in late december.

    Also its not a suprise that when Mcnabb got TO his percentage went to 64%.

    Hmmmm………so lets see a big WR, who is fast, can beat bump and run, can get seperation and can catch jump balls.

    Plus Westbrook was healthy the whole season.

    Not hard to see why he completed 64% (even though he set out the last 2 games because the eagles had home field).

    Trust me………if Rex Grossman can get to a superbowl completing 54% of his passes and throwing 20 INTs. There is no doubt in my mind Mcnabb can win a superbowl throwing 60- 63%.

    Its all about the coach………will he call a balance offense or not. Will the GM/Head coach get the QB the help needed or not.

    Or is all this a little game being played. You run around with no help while the big man in charge sells tickets and makes money on the cheap side.

    Realize also Elway had the same issues with accuracy. What the broncos do………..get his some big WR.

    While Steve Young was throwing 67% in 1997 and losing in the playoffs.

    Guess what Elway was doing???

    Throwing 55% to big WRs and TEs and handing the ball off to the best RB in the league and winning a superbowl.

    In this modern day NFL stats don’t me nothing. We have 2 of worst run defenses to ever freaking meet in a superbowl. Both teams run defense stats wise is hot garbage.

    The colts won their first superbowl with the worst run defense in the league. No thanks to peyton 3 tds and 7 Ints. But thanks to Tony Dungy, the running game and bob sanders. With a little help from the refs and the worst QB to ever start in a superbowl named Rex Grossman.

    See in this watered down, salary cap, free agency NFL any thing is possible.

    Even 3 dome teams winning a superbowl in a little over a 10 year span.

  19. Mizzo says:

    Better receivers make any quarterback more accurate simply because of separation. I’ve noticed it in my son during his development. QBs are frustrated as hell when cats don’t get open.

    I would never say McNabb is the best of all time but I will say he’s one of the best considering the talent around him and that’s why I want him outta here.

    You all know I was hellbent to keep him here and make it work but so his proper legacy will be law, I want football fans to see him in another system.

    I’m not talking about a Warner in New York system either. You all know the difference.

  20. Temple3 says:

    Origin:

    Agreed. Regardless of the reasons, he’s not going to win anything of consequence until he gets that number up. If its with Sidney Rice, then so be it.

    I certainly agree on most of the reasons why his accuracy would be lower than others. The weather and the external conditions mean nothing to me. Roethlisberger plays in the same conditions — but benefits from stability at the WR position and more rush attempts in the offense. He also doesn’t throw as many deep balls as McNabb. I think the best argument is really about the type and quality of receivers that McNabb has — and I’ve made that argument in his defense in gross detail.

    As for Elway, the rules were different then. This generation of QBs all have numbers that cannot be looked at with the same eye as a generation ago. The rules so heavily favor the offenses that playing defense is often times a joke. You can’t hit QBs. You can barely bump wide receivers. I find very little utility in comparing stats with guys 10 years ago. I think we agree on this.

    As for dome teams…Dome teams win when they are home teams. Show me a dome team on the road in the playoffs and I’ll show you a loser. Heck, dome teams don’t even play well on the road in other domes. :)

    Bottom line — McNabb is the best player on the team. Getting rid of your best player doesn’t make your team BETTER. The Pittsburgh Pirates have not had a winning season once since they parted with their best player many moons ago. If Kevin Kolb turns out to be the next Andy Van Slyke, the Eagles are indeed headed for the land of 3-13.

  21. Ron Glover says:

    How do you guys think Tavaris Jackson progressed this season. I know we didn’t see much of him but do you think the Minny brass has enough confidence in him again to hand him the keys?

    What about Jason Campbell in Carolina, Arizona or even Philly?

  22. kos says:

    Ron,

    Honestly, I don’t know how much Tavaris could really progress sitting on the bench. Looking at his stats for the season, he played in 8 games and was 14-21 for 201 yards and 1 td, and rushed 17 times for -10 yards (kneel downs).

    Tavaris was playing well at the end of last season. I felt like he really just needed to play. His real issue is Childress. Childress has a way he wants to run the offense, and wants it ran his way. This doesn’t play up to all of Jackson’s strengths, though. Also, Sidney Rice was never healthy until this year, so all of the announcers saying he had a career year with Brett Favre, well of course, he played the whole season for once with no injuries!

    As for Campbell, right now, Shanahan says that he wants him. Campbell is eager to play for Shanahan. For one, Campbell believes that he may finally get to play in an offense for more than a season. (Shades of Kordell Stewart!) Washington still needs to get a tall wide receiver in their starting lineup, though. Starting two smurfs just doesn’t cut it in today’s NFL.

    Hypothetically, I think Campbell would excel in Arizona because of the offense. Great receivers, and an improving running game means he could play to his strength, which is throwing down the field.

    Carolina, I think he’d be fine, too. With their running game, it might be the best place for him. If you could get a run-pass mix of 55-45 to 60-40, and he complete at least 60% of his passes (which he has done every year except for his first year starting in the league), they’d probably have 10 wins easy. They would need to get another receiver or two though, to compliment Steve Smith. Muhammad is 36, and is not as effective as he was two years ago.

    The Eagles, he’d be in worse shape than he is now if Reid called the games like he does now. Sure, he’d have good receivers, but his strength isn’t the West Coast offense. Also, he needs a running game to set up long passes. And we all know that Andy is allergic to calling a game with more runs than passes.

  23. Temple3 says:

    kos: you’ve left no stone unturned.

  24. mapoui says:

    McNabb should move on from Philly of course but I am torn abput destination.

    Tavaris Jackson is a pretty good young quarterback and may be ready to achieve for the Vikes what Farve threw away.

    McNabb should do the same for the Vikes but we may lose Jackson in the process.

    better for Philly to fire Reid and bring in Dennis Green….. ha ha ha ha!

    that should do the trick for Phill between the pauses in the rioting!

  25. mapoui says:

    Shanahan would be foolish to get rid of Campbell just becuse the media has decided he is not the skins qb of the future…that they must draff a qb and get rid of Campbell.

    Shanahan aint going for it. there is not alternative save Tebow! sweet!

    or are the skins going to trade for Vick?

  26. Ron Glover says:

    Been doing alot of snooping around different sites and radio stations and the word out of DC is that Shanahan is sticking w/Campbell which isn’t a bad move considering the struggles in NY and the Eagles being exposed the ‘Skins may actually be able to get back in the NFC East race next season. This bodes well for Campbell as he will get the chance to have some consistency in his development.

    News in Minny is that the Vikes feel that Tavaris Jackson would be ready if called upon. As for Donovan McNabb the trade winds may focus from Minny to Arizona with Kurt Warner expected to announce his retirement tomorrow. Don’t know if the Cards want a salary like McNabb on their hands, remember they’re still stalling out Anquan Boldin.

    Michael Vick looks as if he’s headed to St. Louis, Jacksonville, Carolina or Oakland

  27. Temple3 says:

    As a source of pure comedy, I thought I’d share this absolutely ridiculous early season poll run by NFL.com concerning the Best Quarterback in the NFC.

    http://temple3.wordpress.com/2009/09/18/bad-questions-lead-to-bad-answers/

  28. Ron Glover says:

    Hasselbeck, is he still in the League? What a joke!

  29. mapoui says:

    Sirius Bark! ” the ship of the dog star?”

    I had no idea! wow!

  30. mapoui says:

    I like your take on the Farve pass and NO INT Temple3!

    the notion that the Saints may have forced it all produces a sense of relief.

    dont know why but it does

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